Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school

325 replies

pisacake · 15/10/2017 11:04

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-boys-to-board-withgirls-at-gordons-school-qrllwztm3

"Gordon’s School in Woking, Surrey, is drawing up guidance for pupils saying they can ask to wear the uniform of the opposite sex, be addressed by a different name and/or pronouns, use gender-neutral ­lavatories, grow their hair long if they are boys, change their accommodation and wear make-up and jewellery."

Note that the uniform policy says:

www.gordons.surrey.sch.uk/uniform

"Make-up and nail varnish are both not allowed. This includes all make-up.
Girls are only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear – no other piercings are allowed. With the exception of the above rule, jewellery is not allowed."

So it appears they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as girls. Line edited by MNHQ

"The school said it had acted because it had “become aware of students who would ‘come out’ after leaving the school”. It wanted pupils to feel safe to do so while still in their care."

Being safe obviously means allowing boys to sleep in the girls dormitories which are supposed to be safe spaces for girls who may be thousands of miles from their parents (most boarders are army children).

"The Boarding Schools’ Association has issued guidance to schools saying that if a boy intends to change gender he should be offered the chance to sleep in the girls’ dormitory and vice versa."

"Not all parents are happy about such changes. On Friday, parents at Highgate, a coeducational London private day school, received a letter from the head teacher, Adam Pettitt, apologising for the introduction of gender-neutral lavatories. Some younger pupils, he admitted, had felt “less comfortable and happy at school” as a result.

Highgate brought in the lavatories “to support gender-fluid pupils”, only for parents to ask if the change was “proportionate” given how few such students were at the school."

OP posts:
SentimentalLentil · 16/10/2017 17:39

I agree with what you're saying but I don't like the words your using.

Datun · 16/10/2017 17:53

It was in response to the schools policy to not allow make up and jewellery for girls, but allowing it for female identifying boys.

I think it was to point out the rank sexism involved. That boys could, according to the new rules, wear make up and jewellery, not specifying what kind of make up and jewellery, but the girls couldn’t.

The, so boys can be ‘cartoon stripper girls’ was to emphasise this fact. Wasn’t implying that they would, but that according to the rules, they could.

thedancingbear · 16/10/2017 18:23

Nah, Datun, that doesn't work, and you know it doesn't.

'they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as cartoon stripper girls' obviously implies there are boys who want to dress up as 'cartoon stripper girls'.

You don't have to agree with the underlying ideology (and I don't) to put up with this transphobic shit, and you don't owe the OP a defence (though I'll grant you that it's the best that could be concocted). It's entirely possible a confused kid could google 'Gordon's School Transgender' and find this thread.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 16/10/2017 18:33

So you are attacking one phrase, which might be construed as not entirely correct, as opposed to the deluge of bullshit that women have to put up with from the TRAs, including the current ones from Danielle Muscato appropriating language from rape victims for his own nefarious reasons and you are calling transphobia?.

How long have you been lurking to find one comment you can lunge upon? Fuck off. And start trying to even pretend that you care care about women.

SelmaAndJubjub · 16/10/2017 18:53

It's entirely possible a confused kid could google 'Gordon's School Transgender' and find this thread

Where they would find a large number of posters concerned about children's safety and privacy. Result Grin

But yes, shut up Women - you must not be allowed to express your views without your language being policed. And you must at all times self-edit in case an 11 year old is reading.

theendisnotnigh · 16/10/2017 18:57

Reverses 300 plus posts.....
thedancingbear
I agree that the choice of phrase is unfortunate. I personally wouldn't use it. However, the thread evolved into some very interesting and constructive discussions (amongst other things) about the difficulties of balancing the demands of transgender activists with the rights of girls in schools to privacy, dignity and safety.
And if a confused kid googled and found this thread then hopefully they'd see women being concerned and caring for their well being and their future freedom and happiness.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 16/10/2017 19:10

It's entirely possible a confused kid could google 'Gordon's School Transgender' and find this thread

And if they were googling the subject, they would also see women being told to 'die in a fire', 'hope you are raped with a large knife' and other such delights. Surely NOT googling would be the solution for a vulnerable young person, just in case they are persuaded that cutting off bits of their body, being sterilised and having a lifetime on medication

But it's women who should watch every single phrase they use or STFU because we are responsible for everything

Datun · 16/10/2017 19:16

thedancingbear

You would have to believe that the opening poster thinks that teenage boys are desperate to dress up as cartoon stripper girls. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that’s what she believes.

I think she was making a point.

But, guess what? Autogynephilia is certainly something that starts in adolescence. Identifiable and verifiable. Do I think the children are blame, hell no. Do I think it’s an issue, hell yes.

But if that one comment, in numerous comments is the one that pisses you off then fine.

How about all the other comments?

Ereshkigal · 16/10/2017 19:17

I'd even agree with much of what posters are saying and arguing here.

Oh, that's good of you Solomon. We were all waiting for you to make your manly judgement.

Ereshkigal · 16/10/2017 19:18

Perhaps you'd like to pop along to a trans forum and call out the misogyny?

SentimentalLentil · 16/10/2017 19:19

Oh that made me laugh @erishkigal

pisacake · 16/10/2017 19:30

'they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as cartoon stripper girls' obviously implies there are boys who want to dress up as 'cartoon stripper girls'.

No, that wasn't my point at all.

My point was that if girls are themselves not allowed to wear makeup then being a girl at the school does NOT involve wearing makeup.

Therefore what these boys are being told is ok is to present as, not as a girl, but as a caricature of a girl.

It's not a judgement on the trans children, but rather a questioning of why if girls have always been banned from wearing makeup, suddenly 'transgirls' require it. Because wearing makeup it is not a part of being a girl at that school. So it can only be a caricature.

And it is offensive to girls who don't want to wear makeup, the implication is somehow wearing makeup is what defines femininity.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 16/10/2017 19:51

Miri I was trying to find that very article the other day. Thank you!

CocoaIsGone · 16/10/2017 20:40

Wow at the ‘cartoon stripper girls’ derailing. Without thinking about it too hard, there is something decidedly creepy about adults who push puberty blockers on to children to prevent them growing up, and think nothing of legally putting young men (and older men if we go beyond this school) into same sex female space where there are girls, young women (and older women too, let’s not forget their needs for privacy). And characterise being female as wearing dresses, make up and jewellery, like an outfit which can be put on. All this creepiness, and dancingbear picks up on one phrase, which I took to mean hyper-feminised ideals of adolescence.

‘Stripper girls’ is an unfortunate turn of phrase, but there is a photo upthread of someone (MtF) which is overtly sexualised and vulgar, in a way which does not respect women. This rhetoric comes from TRAs. It is misplaced to aver to it in relation to adolescents, but it does not mean it does not exist, or that TRAs are co-opting and redefining femininity in a hyper-sexualised manner.

Being female does not equal make-up, dresses and jewellery. It is about biology. Unfortunately legal sex and biological sex are being dissociates, but this does not mean that biological sex does not exist or that it should be replaced by a parody of what being a woman is (gender).

CocoaIsGone · 16/10/2017 20:45

or that TRAs are not co-opting, I meant

CocoaIsGone · 16/10/2017 20:46

dissociates = dissociated

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 16/10/2017 20:57

Great post Cocoa. Thanks, so utterly infuriated with women selling out women and children because they want to be cool.

It's just cowardly, self centred behaviour, which I imagine they will deny when they grow up, after which time countless kids will have been sacrificed on the altar of the 'progressivism' of trans ideology

TinklyLittleLaugh · 16/10/2017 22:13

DH's best mate went to a mixed boarding school. The way he tells it, many of the students went to massive lengths to outwit staff and engineer opportunities for sex.

So if "feeling like a girl" becomes the only criteria necessary for a boy to get in the girls' rooms, then I imagine quite a few will be going for it.

BlackForestCake · 18/10/2017 22:11

I dont think women and girls should have to share with men or boys, I think trans girls should be allowed to shared with girls and trans boys should be allowed to share with boys.

You’ve done this at least three times on this thread. You say "I don’t think (Statement) – I think (Statement, but in different words)." I don’t know whether you realise you’re doing it.

So, you don’t think girls should have to share with boys, but you think trans girls (i.e. boys) should be allowed to share with girls. What will happen to the girls who don’t want to share with boys?

QuackPorridgeBacon · 20/10/2017 08:52

I have read the whole thread and honestly don’t understand why some people don’t understand that someone with a penis can forcefully insert it into someone with a vagina, therefore separate areas based on sex is extremely important for cutting down the cases of rape. A woman can sexually harass a man but she cannot rape him and a man or or young male should not be in the position at school where that is possible.

Penis- use male toilets
Vagina- use female toilets

Gender doesn’t exist other than in the sense of a socially constructed form of keeping women in their place and sex cannot be changed. It is so fucking simpletbat it hurts my head reading that others do not get this.

I mean for fuck sake, there is a trans woman on this thread who is saying the exact same thing. It’s honestly ridiculous.

CAAKE · 20/10/2017 11:34

Just in -

Headmaster has slow-dawning realisation that he’s been hoodwinked by the trans cult 🙄

“A parent said, ‘I’m afraid the headmaster has been fixated with this issue and with this letter he has lost what little credibility he had left.

‘He should be focusing on the running of the school itself and not on pandering to issues such as gender fluidity. Many parents are wondering whether he should reconsider his role within the school.’”

Yes, quite.

metro.co.uk/2017/10/17/headmaster-says-sorry-over-gender-neutral-toilets-after-children-are-less-happy-7007617/amp/

VivaLeBeaver · 20/10/2017 16:54

There's been gender neutral toilets at dds school for over 7 years, only one large toilet block for the whole school so can't use any others. It does work ok afaik, dd has never had an issue anyway.

DJBaggySmallpox · 20/10/2017 19:22

VivaLeBeaver Is there a Tampax machine in it? Do you feel ok about girls having to clean up after an early period in front of boys?
Do any of the girls hold on til home time rather than use it? Does the school have any Muslim girls?

Did you know schools have to provide single sex toilets with a wash basin for girls over the age of 8?
www.plumbcenter.co.uk/wcsstore/PlumbCenter/Attachment/downloads/school-washroom-guidelines-v2.pdf

BigDeskBob · 20/10/2017 19:28

I do wonder how many gender neutral toilets have sanitary bins in them.

hipsterfun · 21/10/2017 13:14

Does the toilet block have some cubicles with urinals and some with WCs? Or do boys sit to wee?

Are the cubicles self-contained with basins?

Do all have san-pro dispensers and disposal?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page