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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

895 replies

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 00:16

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

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NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 18:05

Owen Jones has gone down in my estimation, not that he cares, I am a woman after all.Hmm

MichelGarnier · 18/09/2017 18:07

Granted I have only read a few articles by transwomen, but I'm hearing a lot about sex. Perhaps it's because I have a low sex drive, but if I was depressed and hated my body I would not really be interested in/thinking about sex, it would be the last thing on my mind (and has been, when I've had depression). Then holding down a job and worrying what friends/family/society thinks and exploring therapy/hormones/surgery and just generally being confused about whether you're a man or a woman. Where does sex fit into all that? But I think I'm projecting my own thoughts/experiences (and being a massive prude! Grin) there. I'd be interested in others views.

MichelGarnier · 18/09/2017 18:08

By sex I really mean the hooking up and dating side, not in a LTR.

Original poster
BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 18:08

Yep that was it "errr that's disgusting, you are a homophobe".
Irony completely swooshed over his head...

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BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 18:11

Good point michel - when I wasn't eating (preferring the vagueness there) I hated anyone seeing my body. And in any periods of depression, my sex drive has shot down to nothing.

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busyboysmum · 18/09/2017 18:23

When I was young my friends were boys and girls. I wanted the boys to think I was cool so I spent many boring evenings watching them play video games and smoke weed while I just sat there. I thought they were my friends. Actually I think now that most of them just wanted to cop off with me. I remember having a heated debate once with a soldier to this effect. He was convinced there was no way they just wanted to be my friend. I thought he was wrong.

So these young women probably feel the same way. As I've got older although I'm still friendly with my male friends they haven't been there for me like my female friends have been. And I don't give a shot anymore about appearing cool to men. Take me or leave me. So I'm free to explore my feminist leanings much more now.

NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 18:29

My experience has been that men were never interested in friendship either Sad.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 18/09/2017 18:32

I'd love to be an LGBT ally but not at the expense of what women need.

Backing, I'm a lesbian and LGBT nowadays is simply shorthand for transactivist Sad.

All the "LGBT" organisations, like Stonewall, are just interested in trans rights now. So if you focus on what women need you'll be doing a fine job as a lesbian ally!

Original poster
BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 18:38

If you're pro-LGB rights, you're an ally.

Ignore the takeover narcissists and be an LGB ally, who is also (I'm gonna guess) supportive of people dressing and presenting how they like - so long as they don't forget that sex is a thing.

But separate to the LGB bit because it's not a bloody sexuality.

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FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 18:42

I do hate the way it's now impossible to support LBG, because it has become so intertwined with T. I think that's a huge mistake as they're really very different issues.

I also hate the fact that there are some of the more, for want of a better word "genuine" trans people who are upset by how I feel. They're so caught up in what they're told that they can't see that I don't hate them, I don't wish them ill, I have no desire to oppress them. They believe that by stopping them accessing female spaces I'm stopping them accessing work ffs - no, I'm not. Your options are not "go to work and use the ladies, or don't go to work". But they think using the gents is dangerous - yet they can't see why self identification which would allow any guy access to the ladies is not dangerous for us. It's such doublethink that it's hard to address.

I suppose I'm being a bit of a socialised female there, not wanting people to think I'm mean!

Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 18:58

All the "LGBT" organisations, like Stonewall, are just interested in trans rights now. So if you focus on what women need you'll be doing a fine job as a lesbian ally!

I can't stress this enough! The current trans agenda is very harmful to LGB people (particularly lesbians) but it has completely taken over LGBT organisations - and most of the LGBT media. I'm not even sure if separating out the T from the LGB would help that much as so many male-to-trans people identify as lesbians so would still be part of lesbian groups. The example of Magdalen being thrown out of an LGBT Group for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman (ie a man - who in about 75% of cases will still have a penis) isn't unusual - You either stop accessing your LGBT 'community' or you keep your mouth shut and comply.

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 19:03

I hope someone's going to that talk, because I'm not. I'm too chicken. Sorry, sisters. Confused Sad Sad

Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 19:07

In terms of Facebook, it would be risky for me to post anything overtly critical of the trans ideology but I did share the information on last week's attack and said something along the lines of it being wrong to suppress political debate through violence and that it was important to win people over through discussion/persuasion, not fists.

I didn't say anything about which side's views I agreed with (and most Facebook friends probably think I agree with the transactivists as I am a lesbian and generally considered lefty/liberal) but it still spreads the message of how violent these groups are and how they are trying to silence debate.

FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 19:18

I'm too far away or I'd go Gingernaut. I've had a look but there doesn't seem to be anything around me, but where I am pops up rather often as having a fairly strong pro trans agenda so I'm guessing any rad fems are pretty quiet.

Original poster
BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 19:22

Where is it? If it's a doable distance, I'll go.

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BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 19:23

That's good enough rum, even just getting the story out there so people who are interested read around the subject (and hopefully find the more sane links...!)

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BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 19:24

Just realise there were screen grabs. It's too far :(

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EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 18/09/2017 19:25

Wolverhampton isn't it? I can't do that but I have got my ticket for Julie Bindel's book launch at Conway Hall in London on 11 Oct.

Datun · 18/09/2017 19:26

ChattyLion

There was a whole thread on feminism a week or two back about good books for girls. You might want to take a look.

Books that portray girls achieving and succeeding, etc.

SentimentalLentil · 18/09/2017 19:27

When I was younger my Mam ran a lesbian group, this must have been 15 years ago.

About a year into the group existing a mtf joined the group with her partner and there was complete uproar, the group ended splitting and it became very nasty. The mtf herself from what I remember was actually really lovely and sweet and just wanted somewhere to fit in, I'm still friends with her now. She is exactly what you think of when you think of a harmless transexual who has had a hard life and needs support. My Mam fought really hard to keep her in the group and she was allowed to stay (I think my Mam basically did a 'it's my group so you have to play by my rules').

At the time I was totally on my mams side but Looking back on it now I feel so sorry for the women that were pushed out. Especially as some were extremely vulnerable.

theaveragewife · 18/09/2017 19:32

I desperately wanted to join my LGBT rights group at university for my masters last year, but after following them on FB I realised that I would also have been thrown out for my views that I have a right to claim that I am a woman and I bleed and have had children - it's that bad. A feminist group that won't allow women to discuss what all women go through Confused

It was the female penis chat in class that really sent me into a spiral though.

theaveragewife · 18/09/2017 19:35

I didn't go Gingernaut 😕 but I am local so if you see anything else I'm happy to go together (and swap details first, so you know I'm not - well, you know)

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 19:39

The Faceache friend who shared it is notorious for sharing too late/last minute.

I've signed up to the newsletters now, rescued the first one out of the Spam folder (Confused) and I'm prepared for whatever else bowls along.

I might see you around theaveragewife Grin

Datun · 18/09/2017 19:44

I'd be perfectly happy to welcome genuine transsexuals into some women's groups. Not all, not all the time.

I had a chat with Miranda last week and he was perfectly lovely.

I felt as though I wanted to support him and help him.

But any inclusion should be seen as a courtesy, borne of affection and empathy, not a right.

Furthermore, if you don't have a uterus, you don't have an opinion about one.

FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 19:54

Courtesy....if only that concept could embed itself a bit more huh.

I think that's part of the problem, women started accepting TW into female space as a courtesy, and now it's being forced on us and suddenly and unsurprisingly we're not so comfortable with that.