Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

It's definitely purple.

I've posted publicly, all my libfem friends are liking my other posts but studiously ignoring posts on this one subject.

I keep coming across this in real life - especially with women of a 'certain age

Someone I follow on twitter made this observation. That younger women tend to be more at ease with TRAs than older feminists. She's def a TRA ally but I think she's right. In my view it's that way because older women care slightly less about being seen to be an ally of xyz cause. I think we have enough confidence to speak our truth. I'd love to be an LGBT ally but not at the expense of what women need. Secondly I wonder if exposure to the female world of pregnancy, labour, child rearing gives you a better understanding of the biological essence of being a woman rather than a man. Still don't give a shit about gender but I understand what women's bodies have to do that has nothing to do with wearing a dress or liking flowers.

Just received an email from one of the organisers

Thank you for getting in touch. The conversation topic will be opened by a lady who is researching gender from an education perspective.

The conversation will be managed sensitively and accordingly to those in attendance by three of us leading the evening.

Anyone interested?

I think experience does bring clarity about what being a woman is, along with a bit more of an ability to not give a crap what other people call you. It would be very hard to be a young popular person and to openly oppose so called trans rights. I think they'd be almost incompatible, especially for girls

Magdalen has uploaded a video discussing the event. I love her!

I definitely agree about the pregnancy thing.
I work with pregnant women and pregnancy is a feminist issue. The women I work with tend to be slightly older first time mams from academic jobs and they are always stunned by the way they are treated during pregnancy and beyond.
Women's bodies are property of society and during pregnancy for a lot of women thats the first time that becomes clear.
I feel so so strongly that we need to talk about WOMENS bodies and pregnancy.

A lot of young women I speak to (I'm 30 so not sure if I count as young women anymore ) actually don't want to have children, being a mother is not good for the environment and therefore motherhood is irrelevant in the feminist discussion.
I'm always shocked at how many of my peers who are perfectly reasonable and intelligent women have not considered pregnancy and childbirth (and the choices around) to be integral to feminism.
Female biology has always been taboo and I see the consequence of that in my work everyday, women who don't know if their vulva has healed after childbirth because they didn't know what it was like before, women who are too ashamed to tell the dr they have a prolapse, women who don't mention the fact sex hurts.
It's a real problem and we need the language to remain to be women centred.

The other thing about older women, aside from experience of maternity/childbirth and worries for the welfare of their children, is that they are more likely to involved the care of elderly relatives and more attuned to the specific vulnerabilities of this group. I don't think most younger woman are really equipped with sufficient life experience to really understand the wider implications of the proposed legislation.

I've found you
Thanks for the welcome everyone. I felt quite emotional reading your comments especially because of what has brought us together.

I'll start on the links (it will take me a while). I do have a favour to ask though - what is the name of that young American child who is televised, trans-gendered and is going through puberty. I'd like to learn a little more about her struggles please.

And I think younger women have forgotten the struggle. They don't realise that ironically they are stabling on the shoulders of these women and these men could never present the way they do without 2nd wave feminism.

Also we are old and ugly so obviously we should just shut up because how could we have anything relevant to say. We should just be agreeing by now and letting the younger generation speak.

The thing they don't realise SentimentalLentil is that it won't matter a jot if they've decided they never want to have children, or indeed if they can't - people will still make assumptions about them throughout what should be their fertile years. Employers will still assume that they will take maternity leave, that they'll go on the "mummy track" for a bit. It's very hard to escape from those prejudices whether you actually have children or not.

Those stereotypes get attached to us because we're female, whether we like it or not. Doesn't matter if we have no intention of following the gender rules that say that's what a women should do - if you're a woman the assumption is there.

Smarties are you thinking of Jazz (Jennings?) from I am jazz?

smarties

That young person is Jazz Jennings. A 17-year-old male with the face of a girl, the body of a woman induced by hormones, and the genitals of a prepubescent boy. He is permanently sterile and will never orgasm.

He is the poster child for trans youth.

Here is the link to Magdelen Berns' video. She is a brilliant place to start. She is straightforward and nails it every time. All her videos are worth watching. They are short and informative.

Her 'stoner drawl' grows on you too. And don't be mistaken. She knows exactly what she's talking about.

She was thrown out of her LGBT group at Edinburgh University for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman (she's a lesbian).

Facts this is very true. I am in my early forties and childless by choice but that hasn't stopped many of these realisations coming to me as well, it's been no protection from society's assumptions and of course I've witnessed the impact on friends and colleagues as they become mothers.

No, debate was respectful on my facebook page, fortunately. But feisty as well. Overwhelmingly uneasy about recent direction of trans stuff and growing recognition of the impacts on women, plus repulsion at the violence of these weirdo trans kids who think it is 'right on' to attack a granny

Poor Maria always being referred to as a granny.

I know! Elderly, frail. It's enough to make you violent!

Sorry not RTFT and this is off topic but I wonder if that's the same Jazz as in 'My name is Jazz', a book I picked up at the library recently, thinking to maybe read it with my DC. Obviously this book is simplified and for kids but the way it implied strongly that liking pink etc= you are a girl put me right off. I didn't see illustrations in the book about other girls in Jazz's orbit who weren't into pink stuff etc.

She was thrown out of her LGBT group at Edinburgh University for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman (she's a lesbian).

That's seriously fucked up.

Today 17:34 FerretsAreFeminists

She was thrown out of her LGBT group at Edinburgh University for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman (she's a lesbian).

I wonder if a male heterosexual would be treated in this way

ChattyLion

It sounds like it might be. Most of the narrative around jazz was how he wanted to do ballet in a tutu and liked girls' stuff.

I couldn't believe that Jazz had been through all this without very good reason, so I googled. I could find only one mention of gender dysphoria. The rest was all about gender stereotypes.

And the fact that he made this decision when he was 11 years old.. (In fact, the mother said he was five.)

There is a long thread on here somewhere, if you do an advanced search with Jazz Jennings as the keywords, you'll find it.

Incitatis

I can't see a transman having anywhere near the same effect. Complaining that gay men won't sleep with them, despite their vagina. They would just ignore it or laugh.

Because, realistically, what could that transman do? Dominate him, bully him, threaten him?

Most transmen are lesbians, anyway. So I don't suppose it comes up much. Although, using the same logic, they won't want to sleep with another lesbian, right? Because that invalidates their male identity.

It's all such a mindfuck.

Thanks Datun. I will check it out. I was pretty bit shocked at how reductive 'what a girl is' was presented tbh.
This was in a library that prides itself on its selection of science books for kids for one, and secondly on holding books aimed at girls, detailing women's achievements which is presumably to broaden girls' ambitions and horizons etc.

Didn't Owen Jones throw a tantrum after being asked if he would perform cunnilingus on a transman? This was after he called lesbians 'bigots' for saying they wouldn't suck dick?

Sorry should have specified 'Goodnight stories for rebel girls' marketed books. Not saying that books on womens' achievements are only to be read by girls

Datun

Indeed... reminds me of that infamous twitter exchange with Owen Jones, where he was berating lesbians for not wanting to sleep with transwomen. When the tables were turned and he was asked if he would perform cunnilingus on a transman, he was all like, urgh that's disgusting and highly homophobic to suggest that