Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

Just been reading the thread on pistonheads.

Someone asked what the transactivists stand for and someone replied " a piss".

God I laughed.

That goes under the heading of "shouldn't laugh, but will!"

SoPassRemarkable

The thing that struck me about those comments, was they can afford to be comedic.

They can find it amusing. They can decide that this is two factions from the left at each others throats. If I hear 'the left is eating itself' one more time...

(I'm not even particularly left-wing, to be honest. But this issue, and feminism in general, has certainly shifted me more that way).

Men can laugh at it because it doesn't affect them.

Although I do give kudos to people who are genuinely funny. So I do understand what you mean.

People say feminists have no sense of humour. Finding laughter, wit, sarcasm is something that is incredibly important to me.

But, it tends to sound a little hollow sometimes. Now.

< shakes puny fist at own 'late onset feminism' fucking over my jokes>

Oh they completely missed the whole point of the problem with what happened. But to be honest I didn't expect any better so will have to take comfort in what I can.

Sigh.....all the papers seem to be gradually writing articles on this, basing their 'story' on previous badly-written, confused articles from the other papers....

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/855731/transgender-feminists-fight-hyde-park

I assume none of the journos have a subscription to the Times or they could have at least nicked their wording from an article that understood the situation in the first place!

Rum - that's how they usually do it. One person reports and seventy two others copy their report. This is twenty first century journalism, these people have degrees in the subject ffs

When the lawsuits start, folk will forget they were ever in favour of sterilising children in the name of heteronormative gender stereotypes.

This is just like the 1970s when Harriet Harman etc were saying that being a paedophile was a sexual orientation.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659169/Harriet-Harman-admits-paedophile-group-joined-her-civil-liberties-group-in-the-1970s.html

It's really sad that there will be children maimed by folk being taken in by a loony marketing campaign.

I do think this will be a massive scandal in years to come. We look back on homosexuality being illegal, forced sterilisation etc in horror. I think we will do the same at transitioning young people because they were outwith gender conventions.

Hello all, I usually use mn for the SN boards (and sometimes wander into aibu for a lively debate!) I've only really recently begun to understand the depth of the problem that transactivism is doing by eroding women's rights because I've been following the threads here, starting with the gender identity bill threads and following on from there. This discussion is so so important, thank you for posting, ive been lurking on the feminism board for a while and will hopefully contribute at some point ! (I'm very inarticulate which is a shame because in my head my thoughts make absolute sense!)

Another poster earlier said they are thinking of putting their head above the parapet and posting on fb, this is how I feel, I never ever post sensible or political stuff on fb but I'm starting to feel that this can't be ignored and we need to get these discussions out there.

Anyway I just wanted to say thanks for posting and please keep doing so- I might not be adding to the discussion but I am listening.

Biological sex is different to gender and cannot be changed.

Women afforded equal respect to name themselves, define themselves and discuss issues specific to their experience as biological women.

Safe spaces retained for biological women

That's it. That's all. I'll gladly carry on the fight to get rid of gender stereotypes and any discrimination or fear caused for anyone over the choices they make in how they dress, present themselves, name themselves. I'll gladly fight for trans access to safe spaces, the right of trans people to not have to run the gauntlet of male violence anywhere. I can't see how that equates to any kind of 'hatred', never mind the ridiculous and overblown wording.

What really upset me this morning was the twitter capture, a perfectly calm statement saying something like 'that's terf art, you need to remove it please'.

This 'terf art' being a statue of a woman including a visible vulva.

Seriously? Images of biological women are now transphobic? Art that had no feminist intent and merely depicts women is 'terf art'? Let's be honest about this, terf is simply coming to mean 'biological woman'. Are these TRAs seriously batty enough that their expectation is to be enabled to live in a country where female bodies are terf by existing, and any depiction of them is terf (and we all know what gets done to terfs, deservedly so)? Is this seriously a small group of very disturbed, screwed up individuals or is this as widespread as it's beginning to look?

HattiesBackpack

Anyway I just wanted to say thanks for posting and please keep doing so- I might not be adding to the discussion but I am listening.*

You, and all the other women (and men) who are getting this are invaluable.

Don't stop posting. Don't stop asking questions. Remember for every poster there are a hundred lurkers, wondering, digesting. Fearful to post in case they say the wrong thing.

This is not about who is the smartest person in the room. This is not about education, knowledge or academic feminism.

This is about women. All of us.

This 'terf art' being a statue of a woman including a visible vulva.

I read that article, elsewhere. Fuck me, did they just assume someone's gender?

How do they know that person does not identify as a man? A man with a vulva.

If you can't define it, you can't name it, talk about it.

Their logic doesn't work. Evidently.

I actually found myself discussing today, after DS and two friends were assaulted by a drunk man (DS not badly, 1 boy seriously) the notion that men ought to pay more taxes. It was a violent MAN who attacked them. He cost the NHS. 4 police to subdue him, take statements. Court time. 2 nights in cells.

Men perpetrate violence (often on men, although one victim was a girl) and cost the state £££. Why do we all have to pay to house them in prisons and fix their victims. Why are we even discussing the idea that someone like this could demand entry to a women's space and attack the vulnerable.....who then gave to pay for his court case through taxes.

Anyone ever propose this?

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6zmwim/woman_is_warned_that_she_reblogged_terf_art_of_a/

Comments thankfully mostly to the point of wtaf.

Amazing to see this issue getting the attention it deserves.

There was a book proposing that Mrs Knightley - it was called something like 'a tax on men'.

Sorry about your son btw. Hope all on the mend soon and justice is forthcoming.

I do think this will be a massive scandal in years to come.

I really hope the world (well, the few Western countries where this has taken hold) will come to its senses in the end. The only thing that gives me hope is how people have seen sense on both the paedophilia issue mentioned above and also (more recently and within my living memory) child sexual exploitation (CSE) gangs in Rochdale, Rotherham etc.

I've watched the TV programmes on the CSE cases and now everyone is incredulous that no one in power was appalled, that nothing was done for so long etc. Again, it mainly affected girls (and not the 'right type' of girl) and it was mainly women trying to speak up on it who weren't listened to (at least one of the reports investigating it mentions the culture of sexism as an influencing factor.)

At the time, it was considered the progressive, modern view to believe that underage girls were making 'lifestyle choices' to have sex with lots of older men for money and prudish/conservative to say that they were children, not old enough to give informed consent and this should be questioned.

Some of those trying to highlight this problem also reported that they were silenced because it was considered 'politically incorrect' to raise this issue (due to the link with British Pakistani men). And, as with the trans issue, there were some genuinely dubious people on this side of the argument - I remember the first ever time I heard about it and it was presented that the BNP were claiming that this abuse was going on and were protesting about it (which they were, although their motivations were obviously focused on creating racial conflict, not tackling abuse).

Now people wonder how things were ever as they were just a few years ago - but I can remember the culture and the attitudes which allowed this to happen and when those attitudes were considered normal or even 'progressive'.

If this does blow up, I think it is most likely to be the medical effects on a generation of children who were given 'harmless' puberty blockers and hormones that will be at the forefront. Sadly, (in addition, to the harm that is happening to kids) I think this will have negative effects for the NHS - and also could cause a backlash against LGB people (even though loads of us oppose it and have suffered because of it.)

I think the parallels are pretty strong. Now we've got such a strong fear of being called -ist or -phobic that people are scared to speak up.

How many children are we going to see who are left sterile, often with no ability to have a sex life, because people want to be seen as inclusive and liberal at all costs? The numbers of children being referred in the last couple of years are terrifying.

"Some of those trying to highlight this problem also reported that they were silenced because it was considered 'politically incorrect' to raise this issue (due to the link with British Pakistani men). "

As ever, mostly those trying to highlight the problem, were women.

Just like with PIE in the seventies.

Just like now with trans.

"How many children are we going to see who are left sterile"

I'll stick my tinfoil hat on and say it again, I don't think it is a coincidence that this is being pushed on children who are less likely to stay within their gender-stereotype-box (could this be linked to free thinking in general? Hmm...) and resulting in sterility.

It's eugenics for the twenty first century.

What have the Women's Equality Party said about this?

Diddlysquat, I just checked back through a week of their tweets.

Tumboeweed from Sophie walker too