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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

895 replies

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 00:16

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

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Datun · 18/09/2017 09:14

Ginsoaked

The link you posted is excellent. Incredibly comprehensive. I've read a couple of the chapters. This one is very useful in showing people exactly how far transgenderism has evolved.

By which I mean the narrative that you can stand there, a fully functioning male, in love with your penis, and genuinely, quite sincerely, demand people call you a woman, based on you saying it out loud. That means you understand women better than they understand themselves (by which they mean women's issues are immaterial), should have access to their spaces and resources, and all your male anatomy should be considered female, and centred in anything to do with women.

The part that I find very worrying is that so many transwomen say the same thing. How can so many people think, or insist other people think, something so incredibly stupid. But they do.

And if you don't, you'll get a slap.

thenewbacklash.blogspot.co.uk/p/4-transgender-identity-politics.html?m=1

BartholinsSister · 18/09/2017 09:18

It's being discussed on the Pistonheads news forum too.

PlectrumElectrum · 18/09/2017 09:25

I'm a bit dim when it comes to social media, don't use it often do not really clued up on it. This situation, following all the posts & threads, has made me realise I'm on several block lists on twitter as I follow Miranda yardley & now more who have either attended or commented on what's happened. And I only realised after reading someone's link to the step by step guide on how to keep 'TERFs' off timelines/threads.

Which I think is all part of the problem - being able to filter out any dissent in an echo chamber of delusion, while ramping up the bitter hatred of anyone who disagrees with the cult of TRAs will inevitably lead to what has now happened - a physical assault on a woman.

I've never even posted a comment on social media, I simply follow news & people prominent in issues I have an interest in. And even silently reading posts is enough to be considered a TERF who should be blocked.

It's all just madness it really is.

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 09:27

@BartholinsSister

Voight Kampf and p2c are clearly on the side of the MRAs and TAs.

The rest are making Monty Python jokes.

NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 09:32

I would take a screenshot and store it, or Owen Jones retweeting gaslighting.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 09:53

Haven't read it yet, but here's the link...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1696683

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StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 09:54

I set up a specific twitter account for this stuff, and it took me less than 12 hours and very few posts before I started appearing on TERF lists - most likely because I am following Miranda and similar people too.

It is a complete echo chamber of delusion.

One hope I have is that I'm not convinced a lot of men will just shrug and ignore this as they become more aware of it. At the moment it's more women protesting because it has more of a direct impact on them, but every guy I've discussed it with very much gets it. There are plenty of creeps about, but there are also lots of decent men who have daughters, sisters, nieces, mothers etc and who, when you explain it, really aren't comfortable with the idea of gender self identification and what it means for them. And as a whole, they've had a lot less of the "be nice and kind" socialisation that women have had and are less likely to care about being called a bigot.

I know it's a bit anti feminist to want guys to step in and "defend" us, but at the same token I think it's probably needed.

HemlockIsSpartacus · 18/09/2017 09:56

Statistically Sadly we know that it gets taken more seriously when men say it, so we do need them to speak up

KanyeWesticle · 18/09/2017 09:58

I didn't attend because I was scared. This is exactly what they intend, right? Silencing women and girls.

I am so glad this is getting out. Hopefully, she is right, and the tide is turning now...

NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 10:01

I have a feeling for the greater good, some elite feminists have been working behind the scenes and the end result so far has been two men "saving"us, in the guise of Robeet Webb and Javid Abdelmoneim pushing society forward.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:04

Well, a grand total of one poster there seems to get it Hmm

It's not extremist militant misandrist feminists 🙄 Transactivists think violence is appropriate for anyone who thinks transwomen are not literally female.

Including you, mr bloke who replied to "does anyone know what they stand for" with "a piss?"

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GinSoakedBarroomQueen · 18/09/2017 10:05

Datun it's an excellent blog isn't it.

All of this was completely new to me until I read the part 1 thread on mumsnet. I spent yesterday lurking and read through the whole thread completely agog along with the links you all posted. I can't remember now how I came across that blog as I had so many tabs open in the end, but it really helped me understand it all. Very well written - I thought it would help other lurkers new to transgender issues like me.

TheWeeWitch · 18/09/2017 10:05

@GinSoakedBarroomQueen that blog is excellent. Thank you.

@StatisticallyChallenged I'd never thought of having a second twitter account, but I guess that lots of people do. I'm going to set one up now so I can engage more rigorously.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:07

I had my 'anon' one first, but I have since set one up in my real name too :)

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StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:10

The irony is that I think a lot of the people who oppose the concept of self identification aren't even that feminist - lots aren't active feminists, certainly wouldn't be considered radical feminists in any other context. I don't think I'd class myself as a rad fem; feminist yes but radical? Not really.

A lot are just women without strong feminist beliefs, who are suddenly realising this is insanity - I think we need to find ways to make this discussion less feminism centric, less theoretical. The TRAs are good at the slogans and the heart string tugging and consequently manage to get those who oppose them seen as either shrieking feminist harpies or raging bigots, and we need to change that perception.

NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 10:10

I have been warned, set up your activist SM account with a activist email and apparently they can view deleted tweets along with your IP address.

hackmum · 18/09/2017 10:12

Datun: "By which I mean the narrative that you can stand there, a fully functioning male, in love with your penis, and genuinely, quite sincerely, demand people call you a woman, based on you saying it out loud. That means you understand women better than they understand themselves (by which they mean women's issues are immaterial), should have access to their spaces and resources, and all your male anatomy should be considered female, and centred in anything to do with women."

The question for me is: why? what do they want? So a few years ago, "trans" generally referred to people who felt themselves to be in the wrong body and had surgery and hormones to change their physical appearance so they could pass as the opposite sex. Now some of us may feel uneasy with that (what does it mean to be a "woman in a man's body"?) but at least we knew those people were genuine. It's no small thing to have your genitalia removed so you can pass as the sex you always thought you were.

But this lot don't want surgery and hormones. All they want, it seems, is to look exactly the way they look at present but to be treated by others as a "woman": to have a woman's name, to wear make-up and dresses (because that's what a woman is all about, innit) and to be referred to as "she". And they also want to gain access to women's spaces - toilets, changing rooms, women's prisons, women's sports etc. What's their motivation? Why, if you really think at heart that you are a woman, wouldn't you have the surgical and hormone treatment?

It seems to me that their motives are entirely nefarious and woman-hating. I can't think of an innocent explanation for why you would want to keep your penis but expect to be treated as a woman.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:13

Discussion on digital spy (I'll go and read it now - my blood pressure could do with a boost!)
forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2243058/terfs-vs-tgas-rumble-in-the-park-ruddy-hooligans

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StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:14

In that case I'd suggest using a vpn to access twitter/SM if you are concerned about doxxing

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:15

Looking back with hindsight, it's a bit of a shame radical feminism was called that, as now people assume 'radical' means 'extremist'

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BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:16

Hey, it's not as bad as I thought! Are MNers stealthily on DS?

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BetsyM00 · 18/09/2017 10:17

Another important link with background info on the legislation and sample letters for anyone wishing to write to their MP is:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:18

I agree hackmum. I do believe that people who were what we would have called trans 10 years ago probably needed a different type of help/support/treatment (in the same way as we treat issues of body dysmorphia) but I think most people considered them to be genuine and harmless.

The difficulty is that then sounds like we're encouraging people to have "bottom" surgery, which isn't the intention of course as I'd prefer nobody felt the need to do that.

But...if you are standing there telling a women to choke on your giant man dick that you love then you are not bloody dysphoric.

Backingvocals · 18/09/2017 10:22

I think we need to find ways to make this discussion less feminism centric, less theoretical

Agree with this. And just start replacing TERF with women. I am a feminist. Not a specially radical one. But male genitalia in female spaces is a no. It's as simple as that. I don't need gender critical feminist studies (although I agree with that strand) to know that these people are not women.

SentientCushion · 18/09/2017 10:28

I think everyone saying that the backlash will come when men start waking up is true. Imagine saying to a man that they aren't allowed to say their penises make them male.

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