What causes women to become trans activists?

[TheChampagneGalop]

I mean the type of activists that appeared to disrupt the recent meeting about gender in London.

From what I've read about this incident in Speaker's corner there were more women than men protesting and harassing women trying to go to that meeting.
I watched the video and the male violence was of course disturbing and alarming (and criminal!), but the mindless mantra chants from the women about terfs also disturbed me.

There is common ground amongst both causes, though. Namely that of sexual stereotypes being too restrictive. If people don't fit, for whatever reason, they are at a disadvantage in patriarchal society. Also if people express stereotypically female characteristics they are devalued in patriarchal society.

The thing is, it is the competitive slant to this whole issue, what causes the conflict. Who is the most persecuted or oppressed? Competing for safe spaces. Competing for the loudest voice. Competing for the identity of 'woman'.

This does not undermine the fact that biological females do not need safe spaces or the ownership of their own biological identity.

What really what should be tackled is patriarchal oppression. When taking a stance to not identify with the patriarchal oppressors moves focus to fights and competition between the groups that suffer oppression, it is sad.

Does anyone know anything about how transmen are getting on in the "male world"?

BertrandRussell

Nope. Funny that.

This does not undermine the fact that biological females do not need safe spaces or the ownership of their own biological identity.

I meant they do need safe spaces and ownership of biological identity. Badly worded.

I've posted on other threads about a number of girls at a girls' school I have a couple of friends at now "identifying as boys". Everyone, including teachers, is at pains to ensure they refer to them as such. I think it's been discussed on here before but it strikes me as an attempt to "identify out of oppression" if that makes sense; the school itself should be freeing pupils from expectation of gendered behaviour and interests so I wonder if identifying as male makes those who are doing it feel they could get out of the street harassment, threats of sexual assault etc which are commonplace for girls. Sorry if this is an unrelated tangent.

Does anyone know anything about how transmen are getting on in the "male world"?

Part of the problem when there is too much conflict between apparently 'opposing' sides.

I wonder if identifying as male makes those who are doing it feel they could get out of the street harassment, threats of sexual assault etc which are commonplace for girls.

I think they are sadly disillusioned there.

I think they are sadly disillusioned there.

So do I, I was just wondering why they're doing it (it's not something you're allowed to question to those who report on it...). A reasonable number are, apparently.

I don't know, NoLove. I remember at Uni, a lesbian friend of mine, really did not like men very much. No surprise, she had suffered abuse. Yet she wanted to join the army, really wanted to face combat. I went with her to talk to the recruitment office. It made me cringe because I saw the army as a somewhat hostile place for women. However I did not say anything. I think (stereotypically male) aggression is still linked with strength.

Aren't you at an all girls NoLove? I would have thought the teachers would/should be questioning why the girls don't feel able to express themselves in what is supposed to be a safe and positive environment for young women. Obviously outside school hours they are likely to experience the harassment etc which makes them not want to be a woman, but at that age I know I found my (girls) school quite absorbing/encompassing and enough to counteract that. Or perhaps the teachers do question it privately but feel they can't say anything. That's really not worded well, but do you sort of get what I'm trying to say?

I think (stereotypically male) aggression is still linked with strength.

I agree with that. On a possibly related note, I was also wondering if this could be a factor in why some women are trans activists - they've seen the online abuse directed at those described as "TERFs" and don't want to be on the end of it, see violence such as the attack at Hyde Park Corner and fear being recipients of it, so think it's safer to ally themselves with those perpetrating such attacks. It'll then not happen to them, they're regularly "checking their cis privilege" and "centring trans people", they'd not be bigots who warrant such online abuse/being hounded/violence.

I am MichelGarnier although the school in question is a different one quite near mine - although it's also an all girls school which is part of what baffles me about it (thankfully this hasn't actually happened at my school yet although the Feminist Society is very much along the "centring trans women" route). I also find school a very liberating place to be, relatively free of gender stereotypes and it's great to be able to be educated surrounded by so many great girls. I do understand what you mean and find it quite a shame the school this is happening at aren't questioning why some girls there are wanting to "identify as boys" and don't feel comfortable expressing themselves in such a way whilst "being" girls, it strikes me as regressive and the opposite of what a girls' school should be doing.

I'm sure you're right NoLove. Transitioning is a form of Teflon coating that these girls think will protect them from objectification.

There might also be some internalised homophobia there. If I identify as a man, a man won't harass me, because otherwise he'll be called gay.

I'd be interested to know whether them transitioning leads them to then start hanging out with a peer group made up of men.

Oh my god I'm just watching Ru Paul, who I normally think gets it and I don't have a problem with when they do a lip sync to this song, I'm literally speechless.

Alright now!
All you biological females, who used to have the upper hand
It ain't like that no more honey it's a got real tough up in here.
You got your Trisexual
You got your Bisexual
You got your Inner Sexual
Girl you have to step your Pussy up!

If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up, girl step it up!

Step it up!
(And she come out there wearings some 300 dollar boots)

Yeah girl!
All you biological females out there,
It ain't same as it used to be,
You ain't got the upper hand.
Uh-uh

Look Here!
You got your trisexual
You got your inner sexual
You got your intellectual sexual
Girl goin' have to step your Pussy up!

WOW!

If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
Girl you have to step your pussy up!

Step it up

If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up, girl step it up!

Go step it up!

Girl you have to step your pussy up!

Also the fact that the fuckwits manage to convince themselves that men can become women

I think educational standards have become dumbed down and postmodern shite has taken over a lot of campuses

Two comments (before the idiot jumped in) that I agree with.

Educational standards have become so dumbed down that young people can convince themselves that men can become women or there are 57 varieties of baked beans genders or many different sexes, blah, blah, blah, all of which have been said to me. Hell, I'd be glad if it was postmodernism they were learning. It's more likely to be doing assessments about how a reading or lecture or practical activity makes them 'feel'. We are talking those destined for careers dealing with trans people btw, not abstract Arts degrees or similar.

Girl you have to step your Pussy up

How does one do this exactly?

I'm confused.

Transitioning is a form of Teflon coating that these girls think will protect them from objectification.

I definitely think this could be a factor with some Datun. Girls' schools tend to be free of stereotyping and limits of "gender" from what I've experienced, and I was under the impression this school was no different, so I think it has to be more than that leading to this happening. I think they see as I have that you may be relatively "free" at school but nothing can stop the harassment which most girls experience from a young age and risk of male sexual violence we all face, so this becomes a way they might feel they're taking control of that and avoiding it. Apparently there are some of these girls who are "identifying as boys" and being referred to as such now going out with girls from the school too, but they're to be considered heterosexual relationships...

Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies. They do face discrimination, mockery, verbal and physical abuse etc. Gender dysphoria is a thing, after all.
But ciswomen, BAME people, poor people, disabled people, lesbian and gay cispeople: they also suffer from discrimination, mockery, verbal/physical abuse. You don't, on the whole, get bitter wars between BAME people and disabled people over who has it worse - though there are always going to be individuals who like to play Oppression Bingo.
Like I said earlier, I do suspect that the whole transwomen-vs-feminists battle is being revved up by people who are not in either camp but see an advantage to themselves in perpetuating the concept. I've seen incidents of hyperbolic, spiteful nonsense from some feminists as well as awful behaviour from transwomen/supporters of transwomen.

I do suspect that the whole transwomen-vs-feminists battle is being revved up by people who are not in either camp but see an advantage to themselves in perpetuating the concept

Yes, I agree. It's an MRA magnet.

But there are many men who happily adopt the label 'trans', despite any ensuing negativity. Autogynephiles for one. And many transactivists.

As far as I can tell they get a lot of positive reactions and being fawned over (those who simply declare they're "trans" and "identify as women"). They get to be held up as admirable whilst also dictating to women and girls, and accusing anyone who objects of being a bigot who's being literally violent and oppressing them.

"Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies."

I can see MTT being abused and ridiculed because of how the look - its much more difficult for a man to walk around wearing a summer dress and high heels than it is for a women in the same outfit. Indeed a women could wear many men's clothing without comment.

But are MTT really oppressed for not conforming to gender roles?

What fauch said. I think maybe if people are starting to question the dogma they become ultra on the surface to cover up the questioning.
I'm not surprised about the violence on Wednesday, now we are starting to see more gender crit material in the media it becomes more important to shut the debate down.

A mix of things really.

Some of these women simply have not thought things through properly and (not unlikely myself a year ago) they genuinely believe that transgender means the same as transsexual...not realizing that the movement has been taken over by a bunch of narcissistic misogynistic wankers.

Some of them will be scared that airing their true views will earn them the same treatment as the woman who took the beating. Rabid support will grant them safety, so to speak.

Some genuinely believe in 'the cause'. Actually believe that men are more discriminated against than women, and that these transwomen need protection from feminists. Who see the whole thing as no different than gay people fighting for their rights. Not seeming to link the dots to realize that the trans movement is homophobic...and that sexuality in itself is 'transphobic' :S Unwilling to read the numerous accounts of lesbians who have been pressured into sex with male bodied people as its 'transphobic' to say no. Or unwilling to care until it affects males on such a scale (which is unlikely to ever happen as female people don't tend to believe they are entitled to sex with anyone..and I can't see many trying to pressure male people)

Most of the above, will eventually have a moment where they do stop to think a little deeper, and thats usually when one turns gender critical.

Being GC is made out to be some horrific crime, but the huge majority of people I know who are GC would stand alongside transgender people in fighting for their own spaces and such. Just they do not agree that females should be thrown under the bus in the manner that TAs are fighting for right now. And this is why the threats of violence/rape and actual carrying out of these acts happens. TAs tend to be total misogynists, who are obviously not going to be impressed by women standing up for themselves. 'Genuine transsexual people' are just as scared of these violent men as females are, and as such stay well away from anything to do with the whole movement, or are threatened in the same manner themselves.

This in turn, makes it appear that trans as a group are violent bullies. Each incident makes more people wake up. Which makes TAs more violent..and so the cycle continues.

Its all so sad really. Both females and transsexual people are being thrown under the bus...and so many still don't see this. Self identification is bad news for both females and 'normal trans' alike. The only people it will benefit are predators. Genuinely think that by the time this understanding is 'got' by enough people, we will be to far down the rabbit hole to turn back. And thats fucking terrifying.

Probably waffling a bit now, but this topic is so depressing. It really upsets me how I did not see how anti-female and homophobic the whole thing was until fairly recently, and how I probably indirectly joined in with the silencing of lesbians and such...

"Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies"

Actually, I thought this was women - at least it has been my experience.

Actually, I thought this was women - at least it has been my experience.

Quite, as well as being attacked frequently for being biologically female.