How common is it for men to push women out of their way in public or hurt us if we don't move quickly enough?

[AskBasil]

The two news stories this week, about the jogger who threw a woman under a bus in Putney Bridge and the cancellation of the woman's only swimming session, has made me think about how often I've been quite literally pushed around, by men in public.

When I go swimming, I am frequently overtaken by men who should get into the faster lane with the other men if they want to go at the pace they are going at; quite often they'll kick me or shove me aside as they overtake and I have to be really careful that they don't surprise me and make me swallow water and start flailing. Luckily I know men sometimes behave like this, so I'm prepared and it doesn't affect me, but I've seen other women get out of the pool because they don't know how they can carry on using it safely with an entitled nobhead in it.

I've also frequently been literally walked into by men as I was walking along the street. When I was young and realised men did this, I would look out for them so that I could avoid them hurting me. Which is their point isn't it - they are giving women they do this to, a very clear message that if we don't submit to ceding the space they are demanding from us, they will use their greater size and strength to hurt us.

It's a very subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) form of male violence, or at least male dominant behaviour against women - they tend not to do it to other males, unless they are generally violent and the other males are smaller and they estimate, weaker than them.

Then they can use their male privilege to deny that they're doing it and women are imagining that they're doing it.

I'm very small - under 5ft - so I used to put it down to that. But having discussed the Putney bridge incident with friends, a lot of much taller women than me are saying they too, have frequently been pushed aside, barged into, walked into and sometimes it was obviously deliberate. One friend said she was really shocked to be barged into by a woman once as it's so unusual, whereas men barging into her is par for the course.

I dunno, I suppose I'm just wondering how common it is, I thought it was just me.

Also the only road user who has hit me in hundreds of miles of cycling is a man on a bicycle. He clipped me while overtaking.

Guy takes front brakes off his bike (which makes it illegal to use on the road), collides with woman then shouts at her as she lies there dying. Is this the sort of thing?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/15/crash-cyclist-shouted-charlie-alliston-pedestrian-lay-wounded

It's been mentioned upthread Dervel. Appalling case. I hope he gets charged with manslaughter and banned from driving for a very long time.

That case is appalling. Words fail me st his arrogance and complete lack of remorse for the death of the woman. Even worse when he's single vested that it's a hard lesson learned on her behalf. She's fucking dead!

Suggested, not single vested.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs

That link is depressing and interesting in equal measure. We all walk around having these experiences, and strongly suspect the reasons why.

We come on here, and lo and behold our suspicions are confirmed.

Yet, still, we are women and have nothing to compare it to.

And then a man writes an article about how, only when people mistake him for a woman, he gets treated to intense male aggression. Until they find out he's a man, then they scarper.

He is in the fairly unusual position of offering proof.

Yes and because he is the right sex, other men will listen to him.

His testimony alone, is worth 50 posts on here.

In hindsight, Shariah law look liberal - only 4 women's voices to one man's in needed.

In most other area of life, literally hundreds of women's voices are needed, before men will reluctantly concede that we might be telling the truth.

Never heard of manslamming before now slim but it's good!

If only we'd all never heard of brexit

Another traffic one. I was cycling across a t-junction just after a wide bend, a male driver was turning right from the t-junction into my lane. Instead of waiting for me to go passed, he decided he had enough room to turn as I was directly in front of him. Of course, I slowed sharply as I assumed he had not seen me and then looked at him incredulously. He stared directly back at me, making it clear that he had definitely seen me so I shouted something (not offensive - I think it was, "Bloody hell!" - I was just so shocked by his attitude). He then slowed the car down (nearly causing another accident as, by this time, another car had come up behind me and was trying to overtake) and waited for me come back alongside him in order to yell that he had plenty of room and was nowhere near me. Having thus put me in my place, he roared off without allowing me to reply.

I don't know which was worse, his entitlement that he would be the judge of what was safe - with no thought of how this would appear to the point f view of a cyclist - or the fact that he thought it was quite all right (and important) for him to dominate the situation by shouting at me.

Women need a variation of these garments to wear in the street. With spikes sticking out

The times I have been barged into have been tube-related. The worst was when I was heavily pregnant and trying to waddle down the steps at Bond Street and got shoved from behind by a man who really really needed to get to his train very quickly. I shouted, 'Do you mind, I'm eight months pregnant', but he didn't even turn round. It was at the point of my pregnancy where colleagues were saying 'Ah, I see you've reached the whale stage', so I think it was pretty obvious why I couldn't get a speed on!

I am only 5 foot 2 but it's interesting to see from this thread that this seems to be directed at all women, not just us short-arses.

I must admit Ishtar, I had a sneaking suspicion that it wasn't just me...

So we seem to have established that this is definitely a thing that is happening to lots of us. What would be interesting, would be to find out if it is happening to all people; men and women (I mean do big blokes push small blokes out of the way on pavements?) or really just women. Also whether it is happening to women depending on size (only shorter women for example?) or age (are these manslammers elbowing and shoving frail, elderly women - or do such women know, after a lifetime of experience, to get out of the way?) or status/circumstances (wealthy looking women, business women, mothers with prams, women on their own, women walking with another man etc etc), or age (again, do these manslammers shove children out of the way, or teenagers - teenage boys as well as teenage girls?)

I suppose it would be impossible to really find out except anecdotally but I'd like to start by finding out whether they do it to any other men or boys at all.

This has literally never happened to me. As far as accidentally collisions go men are just as quick to apologise as women.

Today I did a Parkrun. I normally dodge around men who run towards me (they've finished and are running back against the pack to cool down).

Today I kept my line and made eye contact... every one of them swerved me, but not until the last 2 seconds, when they realised I was immovable.

Going to start not getting out of the way of men and boys on my runs from now on

I've been barged by women in clothes shops frequently. No clue why. Just rudely lurking over my shoulder and reaching in to grab whatever I was looking at.

Men bursting in front of me to get on the train - ALL THE TIME. Even when obviously pregnant.

Pavement cyclists with dirty impatient looks - all men.

Impatient drivers as I try to park on my street - equally men and women.

Am not aware of moving out of the way of men in public places, will try being more aware and not moving ..

Two incidents I remember quite clearly: the first, around 15 years ago, I was with my brother and a small group of friends. We'd got off the tube and were walking down a flight of stairs in the underground when I felt myself grabbed by the shoulders and pushed forwards HARD before being pulled straight back again. I figured it was my brother messing around, pretending to push me then "saving" me, but then I turned round to see it was a guy I'd never seen before who stalked off quickly, with my brother, face like thunder, having to be restrained from going after him. I assume if I'd been alone and not with a group I'd have ended up at the bottom of those stairs.

Two years ago I was walking along Bishopsgate during the day. The pavement is very wide there, but a man with a cigarette was walking straight towards me. As I approached I moved to the side to pass him, but he moved so he was still in my path. I moved to the other side to pass him and again he moved so he was in my path. As he got much closer, he aimed his cigarette so the lit end was pointed right at my face. At the last minute I ducked to the side and shoulder barged so I could get past without being burnt. I looked behind me, expecting agro for having shouldered my way out of trouble, but he just went storming off.

The cyclist who killed a woman in his path has been cleared of manslaugjter but guilty of "furious and wanton driving".

The maximum sentence is two years. It will be interesting to see what the judge says.

What's the betting he includes 'not wanting to ruin this man's life' in his sentencing.

The judge is a woman and she's noted that he never at any stage showed an iota of remorse. Sentencing is adjourned until September but he will be facing jail.

I'm currently walking on crutches and have noticed, to my surprise, that people barge into me. Both men and women. This shocked me as I expected the opposite.

DodgyGround that was my experience on crutches too.

I also have to use a stick to walk occasionally, and get barged aside a LOT more when using it than when not. Only ever by men.