How common is it for men to push women out of their way in public or hurt us if we don't move quickly enough?

[AskBasil]

The two news stories this week, about the jogger who threw a woman under a bus in Putney Bridge and the cancellation of the woman's only swimming session, has made me think about how often I've been quite literally pushed around, by men in public.

When I go swimming, I am frequently overtaken by men who should get into the faster lane with the other men if they want to go at the pace they are going at; quite often they'll kick me or shove me aside as they overtake and I have to be really careful that they don't surprise me and make me swallow water and start flailing. Luckily I know men sometimes behave like this, so I'm prepared and it doesn't affect me, but I've seen other women get out of the pool because they don't know how they can carry on using it safely with an entitled nobhead in it.

I've also frequently been literally walked into by men as I was walking along the street. When I was young and realised men did this, I would look out for them so that I could avoid them hurting me. Which is their point isn't it - they are giving women they do this to, a very clear message that if we don't submit to ceding the space they are demanding from us, they will use their greater size and strength to hurt us.

It's a very subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) form of male violence, or at least male dominant behaviour against women - they tend not to do it to other males, unless they are generally violent and the other males are smaller and they estimate, weaker than them.

Then they can use their male privilege to deny that they're doing it and women are imagining that they're doing it.

I'm very small - under 5ft - so I used to put it down to that. But having discussed the Putney bridge incident with friends, a lot of much taller women than me are saying they too, have frequently been pushed aside, barged into, walked into and sometimes it was obviously deliberate. One friend said she was really shocked to be barged into by a woman once as it's so unusual, whereas men barging into her is par for the course.

I dunno, I suppose I'm just wondering how common it is, I thought it was just me.

Yellow, no I haven't. That's why I posted that.

Women have barged into me purposely in busy areas when I'm walking more slowly than them, but it has only been (rude) women. Even that is extremely rare.

There's definitely a hierarchy in terms of who moves out of the way on a pavement. I never used to notice it but started observing what happened and it's so pronounced (mainly to do with sex but also race).

I used to go to a lot of concerts which were standing only and women would start queueing very early like maybe 8 hours before the gig to be on the front row because we couldn't see anything over the (taller) men's heads otherwise. Men would just turn up from the pub just as the band came on stage and would then just barge and push and intimidate the women and injure them until they moved or had to be pulled out by security for their own safety and they would then be on the front row. I remember being punched repeatedly by a guy (while he kept saying 'you shouldn't be here, move) because he wanted to take my front row place that I queued for several hours to get. When this issues been discussed on fan forums the guys always just say this it's because they're so passionate about the band that they just can't help it but they're not passionate enough to queue for several hours and know in advance that they are just going to intimidate and hurt women to get their way - and it's never acknowledged that this is a sex issue - ie it's just presented that some fans do this whereas in my experience it has always been men attacking women because they know they can.

In addition to guys pushing women out of the way because they want to be where she is you also get men - particularly young men - deliberately standing in your way in order to make a point ie that the public domain is their territory and that you don't dare challenge them because you know they are stronger than you and can really hurt you.

It's rarely been done to me by a man (I'm almost 50 so have had years of opportunity to notice), by women? Yes, hundreds of times and I've been grabbed by the arm BY A WOMAN and moved out of the way so she could get to something on the shelf. Ive had women deliberately push their pushchair into me and my dc. Ive had women stand in the middle of the road and shout at me for driving at 20 mph in a 30mph zone. Ive had women open car doors onto my car repeatedly while I've been sat there and they've refused to apologise or been aggressive towards me. My children have experienced women push them out of the way and barge past them, hit them in the face with handbags. Ive pretty consistently had men apologise for their wives actions, I've had men not hit my car repeatedly with their own car doors, I've had men stand up for me when I've been trying to get an apology from a woman who's hit my dd in the face with her handbag and she felt she wasn't in the wrong.

Pretty much I've only experienced women behaving appallingly and men on the whole have done nothing offensive. The number of times a man has pissed me off with his actions is tiny compared with the women I've encountered.

I remember this happening to me once around Westminster. This man in his 60s stoped in front me and stated, "in England you walk on the rights or left side of the pavement" I don't remover which side he said. I didn't move, he did, tatted of and went. I found it strange seeing that there was lots of people on the pavement. I have always found it puzzling because he could have moved to the other side if he wanted to. I had no intention of moving, no do I do in the future.

I find it interesting when bike riding on bike routes. People will pretend they don't see you and try to push you out of the way. In my head I have a rule. I ride on one side going to my destination and anyone else will have to give way. No ifs no buts. Coming back take the opposite side and not give way to those on that side. Those who want to push me out of the way will have to take their gamble.

I have had lost of people say sorry for bumping into into. I am 5,4. I do get bumped into a lot though. Probably because I have no intention of getting out of people's way. I hope I don't start thinking about it while walking.

I've seen this discussed before here www.google.co.uk/amp/s/onethingconstant.tumblr.com/post/120511303648/songbirde108-mercurialkitty-emmagrant01/amp

Also buggies and pushchairs - I think one of the reasons men hate them so much, is because they can't walk into them

I had overlooked buggies and pushchairs. I expect one reason men don't like them is when they bang up against their ankles. Have not had that experience in a while but I wasn't keen on it either.

Never experienced men barging into me even when living in London. Sounds horribly rude. Living in NZ now and recently read an account from a Chinese NZer saying this happens all the time to Asians here. She thought it was because people assume they won't fight back and are physically smaller.

I do get shoulder barged a bit
And in clubs they always push me out of the way to get to the bar

I was once shoved off the pavement by a jogger - when I saw this news story I immediately wondered if it was the same man! Not nearly as serious an incident - I didn't fall over, and there was no traffic. But really similar as in he seemed to change his course slightly towards me, then put out his hand and deliberately shoved me off the pavement. It was in the Canary Wharf area, so if he's a banker it's possible it was the same one.

I am wary of male joggers and cyclists, in my experience there's a tendency for them to see the streets as their personal gym/racetrack and become aggressive if anyone gets in their way or slows them down.

Well that didn't take long did it?

I used to work with some very volatile people and realised early that you have to project confidence even if you don't feel it. of course you do have people who see confidence in women as arrogant.

We have a tea making area at work, you regularly see women contorting themselves to work around a few particular men who have decided that this particular space i.e.:in front of the kettle, leaning against the fridge is the best place to have a chat.

You see women do the 'scuse me, 'scuse me, do you mind, can I just…they might shift a few inches for half a second without even acknowledging her.

Last few times it's happened to me I put on my confidence front: said Ok lads you'll have to move the Boy Scout meeting elsewhere, you're in everyone's way. One looked shocked, one annoyed, and 2 surprised, apologised and moved.

I've done it twice more and now they move as soon as I approach. But only for me, it hasn't sunk in if they're in my way, they're in everyone's, well I say everyone's, but I mean women they automatically move for other men.

Same with the walking through corridors. You'll see women walking, 3 in a row, see someone coming opposite way they automatically rearrange without missing a beat, whether it's male or female approaching. Men can and will do the same if it's a man approaching but not for women.

I had my lightbulb moment with regards to this a few years ago when I was on crutches. At work struggling to the loo, I was on the wall side but taking up a bit more space. Anyway all 3 stopped dead waiting for me to move out of their way. I just looked and went, seriously you need to get out of my way, they did all look shamefaced. They're nice guys, it's just so ingrained in them that this is their world, that it had to be pointed out to them.

Im not on crutches anymore but I still don't move out of the way, it really throws them.

I was talking to one of my male friends who gets it to some extent, says it worse because I look so sweet and 'Mumsy'….

It's chuggers getting in my face that pisses me off, I don't go in to the City often and usually tourist areas so bumping is normal.

But our local town centre full of chuggers. All the male ones get right in your face, block your way, I've even had grab me by the arm to stop me walking by.

The most recent one, I was on a call, guy (at least 6 foot, well built) jumped in front of me, I did the polite smile, no thanks, he grabbed my arm 'Don't you care about cancer victims?'

I finished my call by saying I'm sorry I need to call the police I've just been assaulted.

He still had his hand on me. So you do care about cancer, then.

Get your hand off me or I'm calling the police, I got a look of shock and a what? So I repeated myself. Got back a Are you crazy?

He's still grabbing my arm, so I say it a third time, then get called a crazy bitch(!), and as I'm walking away he shouts so you're happy people are dying of cancer.…

So physical/verbal & shaming, and no one person intervened. A 'friend' told me I should have walked away, I pointed out that he was A bigger than me and B had a hold of my arm…

Still my 'fault' for escalating it…

Dear god Damn that chugger sounds awful. Wtaf was he thinking?!

"Men can and will do the same if it's a man approaching but not for women."

Yup.

Isn't this "normal"? Well not some of the more harrowing stories mentioned but the general bumping into or forcing out of the way. I feel that unless I make an effort, people walk into me all the time, men and women. Same with swimming, I've been kicked before without so much as a sorry.

Although of course given that women in general are weaker and smaller, it's bound to happen more often. No one wants to bump into a guy that looks like he goes to the gym five times a week (just as an extreme example).

And I also read the "performance parenting" thread with my jaw agape in horror. Reading to our kids gets us judged now? Reading??! More and more I see the attitude that women, especially with children, should just keep quiet and stay out of sight and out of the way.

I agree. A parent actively engaging with their children, possibly in an educational way, and this is "cringey" according to MN lore. I hate this. I regularly play gin rummy or read to my children whilst we wait for meals in restaurants. So shoot me.

"but often when approaching a man coming the other way I'll look up and make it clear I'm not sidling round them"

Trump and Kim Jong Un?

Hmmm, I'm in two minds about this. I find there are a shocking number of entitled women with ridiculous sized bags that they don't notice bumping me with on regular occasions, it amazes me because I am always very aware of the space that I and my belongings take up.
I find that young people of both sexes seem very reluctant to move out of the way.
I also find that where I would tell my children to move out of oncoming people's way, a lot of parents don't, so you end up getting barged by a 10 year old.
I sound very old writing this down!
I am appalled at the men physically manhandling to get past - that is assault however you look at it.

I honestly can't remember ever being bumped or barged out of the way on the streets by anyone. I did some experimenting once on the streets of London, to try to find out what decided who was going to move when two people were walking straight at each other, and I think it's often down to speed: the slowest person gives way. Gender didn't seem to have anything to do with it.

Front crawl swimmers are awful, and men are much worse, but again I think that's usually down to speed. I've always thought that they're just not looking, but perhaps they can see perfectly well. I've been knocked without apology in the pool plenty of times. What I do think is very funny is doing backstroke, and watching a fast crawler coming up on me, and the surprise and the dead stop when they almost reach my feet. Do you think they're not looking, or do you think they actually expect me to get out of the way when doing backstroke?

I became so inured to this I used to automatically step out of the way of men coming towards me without really thinking about it.
Until the day I stepped off the kerb into a pothole and broke both legs. Now I just stop and look at them.

And yes to the kettle thing in work. I work in a male dominated office and just say ' Shift please' but it is very much a thing.

The man arrested yesterday has now been ruled out so let's hope the perpetrator is found soon.

Sorry, wrong thread!

Oh for goodness sake!

Oh wrong thread 😁

My fault

Maybe it's a bit of a postcode lottery? I cant recall being shoved by a man but that being said, we don't have many "super important city type" blokes here. Usually it's an almost bump with a polite smile and that little dance you end up doing when both are trying to move aside for the other and both going the same way!

We do however have our fair share of elderly women in town who will walk three or four abreast taking up the whole pavement and refuse to move, forcing us, even those with children, to step into the busy road instead. Teen boys regularly will almost hit us speeding down pavements on bikes and then there's the country lady types. Well to do with pearls, tweed and driving 4x4s that have never seen mud. Those women will happily make anyone move by physically shoving you out of the way. Luckily I'm the gobby type and I'm quite happy to show them just how common I can be.