How common is it for men to push women out of their way in public or hurt us if we don't move quickly enough?

[AskBasil]

The two news stories this week, about the jogger who threw a woman under a bus in Putney Bridge and the cancellation of the woman's only swimming session, has made me think about how often I've been quite literally pushed around, by men in public.

When I go swimming, I am frequently overtaken by men who should get into the faster lane with the other men if they want to go at the pace they are going at; quite often they'll kick me or shove me aside as they overtake and I have to be really careful that they don't surprise me and make me swallow water and start flailing. Luckily I know men sometimes behave like this, so I'm prepared and it doesn't affect me, but I've seen other women get out of the pool because they don't know how they can carry on using it safely with an entitled nobhead in it.

I've also frequently been literally walked into by men as I was walking along the street. When I was young and realised men did this, I would look out for them so that I could avoid them hurting me. Which is their point isn't it - they are giving women they do this to, a very clear message that if we don't submit to ceding the space they are demanding from us, they will use their greater size and strength to hurt us.

It's a very subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) form of male violence, or at least male dominant behaviour against women - they tend not to do it to other males, unless they are generally violent and the other males are smaller and they estimate, weaker than them.

Then they can use their male privilege to deny that they're doing it and women are imagining that they're doing it.

I'm very small - under 5ft - so I used to put it down to that. But having discussed the Putney bridge incident with friends, a lot of much taller women than me are saying they too, have frequently been pushed aside, barged into, walked into and sometimes it was obviously deliberate. One friend said she was really shocked to be barged into by a woman once as it's so unusual, whereas men barging into her is par for the course.

I dunno, I suppose I'm just wondering how common it is, I thought it was just me.

A couple of years ago my friend was getting on a bus when the man in front of her couldn't find his Oyster card so was fumbling for it. The man behind my friend grabbed her and dragged her out of the way whilst saying "hurry up you stupid bitch". He then just waited for the man to tap his card on the reader. My friend challenged him but he told her to "fuck off or you might get hurt". No-one intervened, my friend didn't get on the bus, lovely. My friend was 15 at the time, not that doing this to a woman or girl of any age is acceptable.

I've been walked into by men a handful of times but I've noticed I tend to walk out of their path almost automatically - so when walking down the street I'll always be the one to alter my course. This wasn't something I really thought about until quite recently.

Slightly different but perhaps somewhat related, I was on the Tube about two months ago when a man got on and sat directly opposite me (it was the middle of the day and quite a few spare seats so he didn't have to). He then just glared at me, constantly. Eventually I got off, with him smirking that he'd made me this uncomfortable. Not sure it's relevant but it came to mind.

On a brighter note, since I've spoken about this to my dad he makes sure he always makes space for and gets out of the path of women in public!

Been barged out of the way more times than I can count.
I am small but not fucking invisible.
I do often say or shout after the perpetrators "I bet you wouldn't have done that if I was a 6 ft tall guy" and usually get ignored/ glared at but have had a rare shamefaced apology.

I didnt know where I was going one day and was staring intently at google maps as I walked slowly, looking up every couple of seconds.

Clearly not enough space on the big wide pavement on London Bridge as some guy walked straight at me and tutted when i didnt move fast at me.

I told him to fuck off literally.

The one that sticks out for me was quite a few years ago. I was looking at stuff on a busy market stall. Before I knew what was happening a man had grabbed hold of me with 2 hands and frog marched me a short distance away from the stall. As I turned around, bewildered, trying to work out what was going on, I saw him return to the stall and take up the space he had just created by removing me.

Just the other day I was crossing an empty road with my son in his pushchair and my daughter at my side when some twat in a souped-up car came round the corner, saw me crossing - and sped up, heading straight for me.

Presumably his intention was to make me scurry out of his way; but I took the gamble that he was just an arrogant prick trying to scare me and not an actual psycho who would run us over, and I stopped dead and gave him my best haughty stare.

Thankfully he did stop - and gave me a mouthful about being "in the middle of the fucking road!", at which point I gave him the finger and continued crossing.

I've had very similar experiences to the one you mentioned on your other thread, AskBasil, when men using my street as a through road are incensed by my parking on it and not doing it quickly enough for their liking. They get even more angry when I turn off the engine and inform them that they can either wait patiently or reverse down the street the way they came, but that I will not be going anywhere unless they shut up and let me park on my own bloody street.

And I also read the "performance parenting" thread with my jaw agape in horror. Reading to our kids gets us judged now? Reading??! More and more I see the attitude that women, especially with children, should just keep quiet and stay out of sight and out of the way.

And have you noticed, when you get angry about being treated this way, as I did in my examples above, it's you who's judged for, gets the tuts and disapproving looks, not the person who made you angry? You get told to "calm down", "rise above it", "be the bigger person." I've been told, more than once, that I'm setting a bad example for my DD (not my DS, funnily enough!). I say I'm giving her the best example I can - to stand up to bullies.

I was pushing a buggy with a fat toddler in up and over a railway bridge. I was on the pavement and traffic was thundering past me. So I instinctively keep close to the wall. It was pissing down with rain. I was having to get my weight behind the buggy and along comes a bloke. He walks straight at me. He comes to an abrupt stop right in front of me.
I looked at him and my heavy buggy and said 'seriously'
He moved eventually and said 'bitch'...

I was gobsmacked
Toddler repeated word all way home

Oh my god! So much for the British being polite.

I live in Germany, and while people (sometimes even women!) like to grab my shoulders and push me out of their way instead of, you know, just asking me to move, I've not been pushed away from anywhere I actively wanted to be ... yet.

I'm shocked, but don't doubt your words.

Perhaps there should be something done to shame men who do this? Like the manspreading photos ... find a name for it, and collect incidents on a website, if possible describing the man who did it.

I work in the city and when walking up to work I notice this a lot. Men barging purposely into me.

I'm not particularly bothered as they tend slam hard into my shoulder bag, containing my laptop and other hard crap. I hope it does them damage for attempting to barge into me.

It's not because I walk slowly or take up loads of space I'm tiny and have always walked very fast.

Jellybeanz did you go back to the stall?

I have been barged out of the way once, many years ago. The street was clear - I was with DH (he was walking behind me, putting his phone in his pocket). A man was walking towards me, and altered his course to deliberately walk into me.
He was around 6', I'm just on 5'. Both DH and I were shocked. I initially thought that the barging was a ploy to grab my purse, but nothing was taken.

More recently I've noticed young men trying to make me move out of their way on the pavement by walking straight towards me. Now I'll just stop in front of them and glare (I'm old and frumpy now!). I also refuse to move out of the way for pavement cyclists and recently got muttered at for that. I pointed out loudly and clearly that the road beside them was suitable for their needs, and had no passing cars. Thankfully they apologised and moved but one day my mouth is going to get me into trouble.

Tisapity - I had a similar experience yesterday (without me needing to give the finger) on a zebra crossing. A bus had pulled over to let people off and a souped-up BMW came tearing out from behind it. I was already on the zebra crossing with my DD and I was really terrified that he was not going to stop, but I slowed down and glared at him. He muttered, but we didn't resort to abuse. I was almost ready to shove DD out of the way so I got hit and not her.

I'm clearly in the wrong board here because I am struggling to see how this is a feminist issue?

There are THOUSANDS of women In this country just as rude as all of the men mentioned above

There are THOUSANDS of women In this country just as rude as all of the men mentioned above

I've never felt threatened, been harassed, glared at, intimidated, leered at and so forth by women in public so doubtful.

I've never felt threatened, been harassed, glared at, intimidated, leered at and so forth by women in public so doubtful.

You are very fortunate then. Woman are just as rude.

There are THOUSANDS of women In this country just as rude as all of the men mentioned above

Yet so few of us have met these women.

I think it's uncommon - that's why it's in the news.

In my RL I have been shoved out of the way twice that I remember by Ben.

But far more times by women (often but not invariably with pushchairs, even when there is plenty of room for mannerly people to pass)

I do not in any way condone violence, but having played a full contact, very aggressive sport has helped with this a little- not by stopping the idiots walking into me (although I haven't personally noticed more men than women), but because I now automatically lean slightly forward and tuck my shoulder forwards towards them rather than leaning back and putting my shoulder away behind me. It means I'm braced better and less likely to fall, I'm more shielded and they pass my back rather than front which is less sensitive and personal. If you find you are often walked into it might be worth practicing and getting into the habit.

I read a tip somewhere, ages ago, to look oncoming men in the eye.

It works the vast majority of the time.

Not Ben..... men!

(sorry, Ben)

Jellybeanz did you go back to the stall?

I'm ashamed to say I didn't. I felt too intimidated so just scuttled off. I was quite young then. If it happened today I'd rip his bloody head off.

Yes - another city worker that decided a while ago that I'm fed up of giving men priority over the pavement. I won't deliberately obstruct anyone, but often when approaching a man coming the other way I'll look up and make it clear I'm not sidling round them. The look of is often priceless.

It's a feminist issue all right. Read the various posts on mumsnet on this and you understand.

Last time I was swimming an older man swam into me. I thought he had mistakenly gone of track so I dived and swam into the other lane (I'm a confident swimmer). But when I dived up he was still coming towards me, arms flailing about. I immediately went under again and he kicked me. It was deliberate. I swam to the end and suggested to the supervisor that he might be struggling - my way of complaining. He was spoken to and after asked to keep within the lanes for the men. I swam again for a few lengths but left after. Fucker.

I'm 36 and I don't think I've ever been barged into by a man. However, more times than I can count I have had a man put his hands either on my shoulders but more commonly around my waist and moved to one side so they can get past. They don't do it roughly but it's still irritating. I'm only 5 foot 2 so it's almost like they're treating me like a small child rather than an adult woman. Plus I don't like having strange men touching me, particularly around the waist.

You are very fortunate then. Woman are just as rude.

Really? Women go around harassing girls, other women, boys and men? When I was 14 and in my school uniform, minutes from school and a man told me I'd "tempt many boys", women do that as well? When I was shouted at with "compliments" then called a "miserable bitch" for not replying by two young men, women do that to boys and girls? When I was glared at by a man on the Tube who sat opposite me purely to intimidate me and found it amusing when I got off due to it, women do that as well? Hmm.

Has anyone experienced teens and kids doing it for a laugh?

I have had since school holidays when Ive been using my.phone and walking go out of their way to stand in front of me. Walking up and doing it deliberately standing in my way.

The last teenage girl that did it got told firmly to get out my way and she did.