How common is it for men to push women out of their way in public or hurt us if we don't move quickly enough?

[AskBasil]

The two news stories this week, about the jogger who threw a woman under a bus in Putney Bridge and the cancellation of the woman's only swimming session, has made me think about how often I've been quite literally pushed around, by men in public.

When I go swimming, I am frequently overtaken by men who should get into the faster lane with the other men if they want to go at the pace they are going at; quite often they'll kick me or shove me aside as they overtake and I have to be really careful that they don't surprise me and make me swallow water and start flailing. Luckily I know men sometimes behave like this, so I'm prepared and it doesn't affect me, but I've seen other women get out of the pool because they don't know how they can carry on using it safely with an entitled nobhead in it.

I've also frequently been literally walked into by men as I was walking along the street. When I was young and realised men did this, I would look out for them so that I could avoid them hurting me. Which is their point isn't it - they are giving women they do this to, a very clear message that if we don't submit to ceding the space they are demanding from us, they will use their greater size and strength to hurt us.

It's a very subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) form of male violence, or at least male dominant behaviour against women - they tend not to do it to other males, unless they are generally violent and the other males are smaller and they estimate, weaker than them.

Then they can use their male privilege to deny that they're doing it and women are imagining that they're doing it.

I'm very small - under 5ft - so I used to put it down to that. But having discussed the Putney bridge incident with friends, a lot of much taller women than me are saying they too, have frequently been pushed aside, barged into, walked into and sometimes it was obviously deliberate. One friend said she was really shocked to be barged into by a woman once as it's so unusual, whereas men barging into her is par for the course.

I dunno, I suppose I'm just wondering how common it is, I thought it was just me.

That cyclist story is horrendous. The entitlement at such a young age is horrific.

That poor woman's family!

I have read that people take their cue as to the intended direction of travel from where the eyes focus. So if you are staring into the middle distance of your trajectory people see that and will move out of your way. If you are the person looking to check a person's intended direction of travel then you will probably be the one getting out of the way. I don't know if men subconsciously use this technique but when I have used it it works for me. This doesn't stop the deliberate barging however. We were talking in my office about the Putney Bridge jogger and one of the men was commenting on how he'd run past the man but shoved the woman. I said how common it was to be shoved and barged and that if I was barged whilst out with my ex (big bloke) it was equally common that they would apologise to him rather than me. These are mostly middle aged men and it astonished me that any of this was news to them.

I had an entitled make colleague who complained that I didn't" move out of his way in the office.

Also I used to go lane swimming on a Sunday morning ( just one hour of lane swimming and the only time I could go) when it was fairly crowded in the slow lane and you had to go at a regular pace due to the number of people in the lane.

One man always waited when he got to the end of the pool and turned (so that people built up behind him), then thrashed his legs for about 5 seconds to kick as many as he could/kick water in people faces) then resumed breast-stroke. He kicked his legs like this at the start of every length.

I was telling my son about this yesterday - he's 10. We went into town later and he was on high alert, it was quite funny. A male jogger came barrelling towards us and I pulled both kids out of his path and my son said loudly "he could easily have run round us". Later, an older man walked directly across the pavement in front of us - from the road into a hotel entrance - and made us stop without acknowledging us, and my son said, sort of triumphantly, "you're right, Mummy. It happens all the time!"

Years ago, I was ranting about some sort of everyday sexism and my husband said "once you start noticing this shit, you can't stop". This is another example - we'll all notice being shoved out of the way now.

That cyclist story is awful, and it is just the same logic as I'm sure any one of the drivers I posted about would use if they'd knocked me and ds off our bike

I think I have stopped a couple of potential bargers by glaring at them but their eyes have to be on you for you to do that.

I dart around very fast so I wonder if I've been singled out but then they change their minds. I'm short as well which I think makes a better target for them.

I have yelled at cyclists and scooterers (!) to fuck off when they've come straight at me.

I think I have stopped a couple of potential bargers by glaring at them but their eyes have to be on you for you to do that.

I dart around very fast so I wonder if I've been singled out but then they change their minds. I'm short as well which I think makes a better target for them.

I have yelled at cyclists and scooterers (!) to fuck off when they've come straight at me.

Morning, how did he respond?

Can I just say, a week ago in a supermarket I was wanting to turn left in an aisle. It was obvious I was doing this. A man then undercut me and position himself to turn left. I loudly said to him what are you doing? He replied I was turning left like you. I would have let you go first. Like hell he would. Thankfully the couple ahead turn round to him, it was the man actually, and told him he was being a wanker.

Just thought I'd share.

Grr. Sorry about not catching auto correct. "Be we had" was meant to be "I've never had a female cyclist bowl me over [etc]

I have read that people take their cue as to the intended direction of travel from where the eyes focus. So if you are staring into the middle distance of your trajectory people see that and will move out of your way. If you are the person looking to check a person's intended direction of travel then you will probably be the one getting out of the way. I don't know if men subconsciously use this technique but when I have used it it works for me.

I tried the eyes staring into the middle distance today on a short walk to work from a busy central London station. Very focussed and determined. And at lunchtime in a very busy area. It worked. I was like an Exocet - they all moved.

Had it happen quite a lot, always men. Hmm, actually, mostly white men. Double privilege? Having finally realised that not only do you get barged, but spend a lot of time trying to dodge and weave to avoid it...have started trying to deliberately walk more assertively. Head up, eye contact, maintaining my line. Amazing how surprised even the otherwise decent guys look, that they're having to slightly alter their path for once...

Was shoulder-charged by a 6'4" 20 stone bloke (I'm 5'5", around 11 stone and 14 weeks pregnant) as I was turning into Pret to get my breakfast the other day. He then had the cheek to hurl a string of abuse at me. Twat.

Was shoulder-charged by a 6'4" 20 stone bloke (I'm 5'5", around 11 stone and 14 weeks pregnant) as I was turning into Pret to get my breakfast the other day. He then had the cheek to hurl a string of abuse at me. Twat.

Given that men, statistically, are more likely to hit each other than hit a woman, I wonder if this is how it starts?

Was turning left into a side road this morning. A woman driving out of it was turning left onto the main road. Sensibly, she followed the Highway Code by waiting to be sure that I actually turned before she pulled out.

The bloke in the car behind her, indicating to turn right, obviously decided she was taking too long (regardless of the fact that his field of view was way narrower than hers). He zoomed out from behind her into the other lane (ie, the one I was turning into) and had to perform an undignified emergency stop when he came bonnet to bonnet with me. At least he had the grace to shuffle back into his own lane rather than try and muscle out. But that might have been something to do with my own Hard Stare.

TriJo, bloody hell! What a git.

Mumsnut, that reminds me. I was in the car with a friend, she was driving. We were stuck in traffic at temporary lights, a 3 way set that was very busy and very slow. The bloke behind kept beeping at us. We were mystified as to why. Eventually when the light turned green, he was so worked up, my friend hung back while he tried to overtake in his huge 4x4. Because of a lag of traffic still going the other way, he got thoroughly stuck and ended up pissing a load of other drivers off.

Once we'd got away, we laughed, but initially we just had to keep looking at each other because he was so angry - about traffic? - that e wanted to overtake one car, so we were both thinking he was probably angry enough to use his 4x4 to ram her regular car.

Yep - here's mine, posted on the jogger thread

My anecdata - was walking ok rushing through City of London at lunchtime and was about to pass a man, when he slowed and braced himself and RAMMED his elbow into the side of my arm. I got knocked to one side, the women behind me gasped, it BLOODY HURT, and I shouted back at him. He had stopped, didnt turn back, just slowly hinged his elbow back in and started walking along again. I didn't report it - who would believe it wasn't an accident?

www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28027/when-i-stopped-cutting-my-hair-i-learned-how-men-treat-women-on-american-roads/

I read this from somewhere (perhaps here) it's interesting how much he noticed the difference in treatment.

Very much approve of calling this phenomena manbarging or Testosteroving as suggested above

Testosteroving is too much of tongue twister!

seriously, I thought the term "manslamming" had been in use for ages. Then again, I remember when I first used the term Brexit on MN and got told off for "making up shit words"....!

I go out for a walk this morning. Quiet suburban streets. Man in suit coming towards me, headphones in, holding a tablet. Clearly watching something and walking at same time (why??!). I thought any moment now he would look up and see me. I was moving closer to a wall to avoid him and he still was going to walk into me - except I put my hand up ready to push him away which he then registered. He swerved slightly to avoid me but looked completely disgruntled that I was willing to push him if he walked into me. Not a hint of an apology.

I was once very heavily pregnant dragging a pushchair with my toddler in up the narrow stairs at the small local station when a man storms up behind me taps me on the shoulder and says get out the fucking way. When I said i can't he decided to push past trying nearly making me lose my balance. When I got up to the platform he was standing waiting for the same train as me that wasn't for 15mins.

It's not a size issue. I'm 6 foot tall and fat, and I get shoulder-charged by city dicks. I shout "ouch that fucking hurt" at their retreating backs. Once on the train to the rugby at Twickenham I had a seat, a male fan decided to lean on my head for support. I told him to remove his arse cheeks from my head, he kept trying to do it again.