How common is it for men to push women out of their way in public or hurt us if we don't move quickly enough?

[AskBasil]

The two news stories this week, about the jogger who threw a woman under a bus in Putney Bridge and the cancellation of the woman's only swimming session, has made me think about how often I've been quite literally pushed around, by men in public.

When I go swimming, I am frequently overtaken by men who should get into the faster lane with the other men if they want to go at the pace they are going at; quite often they'll kick me or shove me aside as they overtake and I have to be really careful that they don't surprise me and make me swallow water and start flailing. Luckily I know men sometimes behave like this, so I'm prepared and it doesn't affect me, but I've seen other women get out of the pool because they don't know how they can carry on using it safely with an entitled nobhead in it.

I've also frequently been literally walked into by men as I was walking along the street. When I was young and realised men did this, I would look out for them so that I could avoid them hurting me. Which is their point isn't it - they are giving women they do this to, a very clear message that if we don't submit to ceding the space they are demanding from us, they will use their greater size and strength to hurt us.

It's a very subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) form of male violence, or at least male dominant behaviour against women - they tend not to do it to other males, unless they are generally violent and the other males are smaller and they estimate, weaker than them.

Then they can use their male privilege to deny that they're doing it and women are imagining that they're doing it.

I'm very small - under 5ft - so I used to put it down to that. But having discussed the Putney bridge incident with friends, a lot of much taller women than me are saying they too, have frequently been pushed aside, barged into, walked into and sometimes it was obviously deliberate. One friend said she was really shocked to be barged into by a woman once as it's so unusual, whereas men barging into her is par for the course.

I dunno, I suppose I'm just wondering how common it is, I thought it was just me.

It happened to me yesterday by a man who then catcalled me as he walked off. Turns out he is our new neighbour.

Oh dear, Love Thy Neighbour

I was in a crowded pub a few months ago waiting to order at the bar. Slotted into a gap next to a few blokes who were already drinking. Nearest one had his back to me. Saw him glance over his shoulder at the crowd, then a short while later step back right into me and nearly knock me off my feet. Now maybe he just didn't see me, maybe, but there is no way he didn't notice colliding with me - and he didn't even look round.

So I thought, hmm, I wonder if he'll try that again. Stayed where I was and braced myself. Sure enough, he stepped back again but this time rebounded off my shoulder. And then got really indignant: "Why the fuck did you do that? Why the fuck did you do that?"

Yes. How very inconsiderate of me.

When I was 8 months pregnant, I was packing my shopping as it came through the till at a supermarket. A man shoved me, with no warning, because he wanted to pass between me and the person packing at the till opposite. It squashed my bump hard against the side of the conveyor belt.
I turned holding my tummy and said 'oy, you hurt me, you could have hurt my baby!'.
He scowled and said 'you were in the way, taking up all the space'. Both the people on the tills stopped to watch, but looked away when I looked at them, as if I was being a bit precious and I felt really embarrassed.
Still wish I'd done more, but no idea how/what, if everyone around seems to accept it as normal behaviour :-(.

Has anyone experienced this in reverse? I can think of a few occasions where I've accidentally walked in to a man and had a HUGE reaction.

I remember once being in the supermarket when my son was tiny in a pram and there was a bit of a bottleneck at the end of an aisle where everyone was shuffling forward slowly. I apparently touched the man in front of me with the wheels of the pram - so gently I wasn't aware it had touched him - and he turned round and shouted at me for "using my fucking pushchair as a weapon".

Another time I jumped on to the tube just as the doors were closing - which I know is annoying - and my bag swung off my shoulder and hit a man. I apologised, obviously. But he was very cross. He sat opposite me and for the whole journey kept rubbing his arm and tutting and staring at me like I'd wounded him terribly.

And another incident was I reached for the handrail on the tube and misjudged and sort of punched a man on the shoulder instead - not hard, I was reaching, there was no force in it. I laughed and said sorry and made a joke, I can't remember what. And he was so horrible to me that another man stepped in and pointed out I'd done nothing wrong (and I cried, because I was pregnant!).

It's like they're SO affronted that we are invading their space that they can't deal with it reasonably.

can honestly say I haven't experienced this with men but many times with women

.

Agree wholeheartedly

Have been barged into by women with pushchairs. Also women pushing in front of me in bus queue. Never by men

Never experienced this in UK and I worked in the city for 4 years.

However I lived in Greece for 10 years and was barged out of the practically every day, but the perpertrator was often a little old lady!

I had a bus driver shut the door on me when I was 8 months pregnant and trying to get on the bus with a dog. He got a mouthful of abuse (yes i'm that classy) and all the tourists cheered!

I nearly posted about this recently. Waiting for the bus, clearly in the queue before a bloke half my age. The bus came and Nobby decided he was getting on the bus before me. Shoulder-barged quite violently in order to do so. No-one batted an eyelid in this small village where generally we don't get stuff like this (or so I thought) . I let him get on the bus,(as he was obviously going to come what may) and Said, "Clearly it's important for you to get on before me". I should have stated the obvious about the bus getting there at the same time for all of us, but I was quite shocked at the force at which he assaulted me. I wondered for a long while why I was quite upset, and then I realised it was actually an assault by barging. It actually hurt a lot.

I would've said that this doesn't happen to me, but I've recently noticed it NOT happening to me, so I think I was wrong!

Earlier on this year, I was in training for a sports competition; I had quite low body fat and visible muscles in my arms. Quite a manly look, if you will.

When the weather got warmer in May/June and I started wearing vest tops, I suddenly found men were stepping out of MY way, it was really weird! I mainly noticed it with middle-aged/older men; where normally I would expect them to push past me (but that expectation was so ingrained I didn't even realise it was there), they let me go through, without really looking at me even.

My hypothesis is that out of the corner of their eye (I am tall and small of boob) they coded me as 'young, strong male,' and acted accordingly.

I'm a little chubbier now, so it's stopped happening, but it was fun while it lasted.

I have started not moving out of the way in the corridor at work. Men are really confused by it. One colleague said, "I thought you were going to hug me!" "No, I just couldn't see why I should move out if my way for you." (Why did he think I was going to hug him? The only time that has happened was some years ago at the end of a Christmas do when he was very pissed and I failed to escape quickly enough.)

I have walked into people myself. If I'm very deep in thought, I lose awareness of my surroundings. Doesn't happen often, but it has happened.

I can hold my own in the swimming pool, and I have been known to overtake people who have no fucking idea of lane discipline and don't stop at the ends to let faster swimmers go ahead, and don't see the clear signs to indicate the speed of that lane (though to be fair, they won't be clear if you need glasses and don't have prescription goggles.)

I don't remember any incidents of being barged in particular. I have been very tempted to barge past people who stand in doorways or at the top of escalators dithering about which way to go. If you don't know, get out of the way, and then work it out, when you're not causing a hazard by being in the way.

I can't recall any men barging into me but I am walked into by pairs of women constantly (never women on their own). Not sure what to make of that.

There is a supermarket I used to use a lot (Tesco and Lidl have both opened nearer) that has a revolving door.

I walk with a stick quite slowly so men will ooften push past to get in to the door.

But what they don't realise is there is a button to slow it down for people with disabilities.

I have it down to a fine art, be barged past, press the button, man walks into door.

Well OP I too have experienced the jostling and aggression of male swimmers. I'm 5'9" and was a pretty fast swimmer in my youth. Once a man who was swimming only a little faster than me reached forward and pulled me backwards by the ankle as I turned at the end. I did manage to shout "you wouldn't have done that if I was a man" but that was it I was humiliated. Utter shit. Great thread thank you, got that off my chest!

'I have been known to overtake people who have no fucking idea of lane discipline and don't stop at the ends to let faster swimmers go ahead'

I have swum all my life and never heard of this.

The male cyclists on the pavement is definitely a thing, and a very dangerous one at that.

We do walk on the left in this country, surely? I was taught this in school; my kids also were. There are often signs on the floor reminding you on stair cases etc in transport hubs and other busy places. I don't cycle much, but presumably the same is the case on cycleways for cyclists.

I've been pushed in the chest to be brusquely pushed aside by a guy in a posh suit once, in what's known as the financial quarters. As someone said, and this happens to me on a daily basis I think: "I've been walked into by men a handful of times but I've noticed I tend to walk out of their path almost automatically." I tend to zigzag a lot when walking the streets, and then you should know I'm quite tall and big so often taller than the guys but it doesn't make any difference, and neither that I'm elderly, to the contrary. But at least people don't whistle after me in the street, or jeer, so I guess that's always something to be glad about.

WhattheChuff said:
"The worst though, was on London Underground escalators- a man fucking lifted me (by holding me under the armpits like a toddler) to one side so he could get passed. "

Oh, God! How awful!

AskBasis (TS) said:
"The reason I'm asking is because for many years I genuinely thought it was just because I am short"

No, it's not. I'm not short, I'm tall, it happens to me too.

VestalVirgin said:
"I live in Germany, and while people like to grab my shoulders and push me out of their way ... "

And I live up in Scandinavia, doesn't make much of a difference.

fuzzywuzzy said:
"I work in the city and when walking up to work I notice this a lot. Men barging purposely into me."

Yes, I've noticed this too, but in another country.

Not the same at all but similar- I drive what I think is thought of as a 'woman's car'. Like a Citroen c1 - quite small, not very powerful so it's not often you see a man driving one. I've got used to other road users driving in a certain way for example I live close to a very busy T junction where people have to wait quite a while before they can pull out. Easily a few times a week, someone will pull out of the junction when I'm driving along the main road forcing me to brake despite me having right of way. Or at the same junction, a car will edge so far out that I'm left with no choice but to let them out because I'm unable to get past. I can think of a few other examples but this one irritates me the most because it happens so often.

However, this week I've been driving Dh's car which is a much better/bigger car than mine (which shouldn't matter because said junction is in a 20/30 zone) and it hasn't happened once.

I don't know I maybe reading too much into it and maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree with stereotypically men's and women's cars but I've certainly noticed a difference in how other road users treat me this week.

I regularly get barged by men getting onto packed commuter trains.

Years ago,I was walking down a crowded street with my BF of the time who had a black belt in some kind of martial art. He was amazed at how often I got barged into my men coming towards us because it never happened to him. He thought it was something to do with me not 'occupying' the space but eventually conceded that it was simply because I'm a woman.

I don't think I have ever been barged into by a man. Reading this thread is quite alarming. I do remember reading on here once about men never moving out of the way so have made an effort ever since not to move out of men's way. They just move out of mine; there's never been a fuss. I will keep my eyes open in future.

I have experienced the swimming thing but assumed it was because I was annoyingly slower. I always wait at the ends to let faster people pass. I have frequently found myself stuck at the swimming pool behind a pair of women chatting whilst swimming very slowly. That is really annoying!

Have to say tho, that on the whole the UK is better than many other countries. In Finland I got pushed out of the way, by whole families (queueing to get food at breakfast buffet, and they all just shoved their way in as I finally got to the front.

Also was yelled at, and had door held shut when trying to enter shop, by an elderly man (shop definitely open, so apparently the wrong door, but no one else going in or out, so wasn't at n anyone's way...).

I remember carrying 2 very heavy bags of groceries to a bus stop when I lived in central London. I remember thinking "right am heading in straight line everyone else will just have to get out of my way for once". Cue bash, bash, bash into men walking utterly unencumbered. Shocked at how unconsciously I weaved out of their way when in a crowd as a matter of course and the semi chaos caused when I didn't.

The pavement that leads to DS's nursery is extremely wide, and is busy with pedestrians, joggers and cyclists. Women are perfectly capable of being rude but it's only ever male cyclists and joggers who would run me over as soon as look at me. Female joggers and cyclists have always given plenty of space.