I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

[CosmicPineapple]

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

I said the thread was in danger of getting ridiculously angry because that's what seems to happen on almost any gender or trans thread at the moment.

They were talking in the dark. It's not about passing as physical attraction. The point was to get to know someone for their personality first. What someone has between their legs has nothing to do with their personality.

Once they'd met in the light there's a whole number of reasons why they might not be physically attracted to each other. At that point Jazz disclosed.

It's not about passing as physical attraction. The point was to get to know someone for their personality first. What someone has between their legs has nothing to do with their personality

What someone has between their legs has everything to do with whether you want to know about their personality! If I am a woman looking for a man to go out with, I do not want to waste my time talking to a woman who is presenting as a man.

It's true, there are dating sites that promote talking in the dark first. As a novelty. Because most people want to be in full possession of the facts of somebody, as much as they can, before they engage.

Doing this with Jazz doesn't seem to be part of that. It's a deliberate attempt to leave out the biggest part of Jazz's life, in case it's unpalatable to potential suitors.

It's doomed to failure. Awful for the person who rejects Jazz, but equally awful for Jazz themself.

In fact, it seems to be exploiting everybody all round. And dressed up as some kind of fun game.

I'm not saying it's an ideal situation. Just pointing out that this isn't Jazz leading someone on into a relationship and then going 'surprise I'm trans'. They had one course of a dinner together and after that she declared. They're not at 16 going to fall in love and be life partners after 1/3 of a meal. The trailer for the following episode shows the boy following up asking to meet up. He didn't have to do that.

In the show another boy wanted to meet Jazz's trans friend as a friend (the friend disclosed straight away).

Dating whilst trans had its own challenges, but I think she's getting an unfair time on here.

Maisy why is no thought given to the men who are put in this position?
Does it not matter if they take the news badly?
Does it not matter how they feel to find out the person they were led to believe was female isnt?
Or are only Jazz's feeling what matter?

Its great that this boy chose to see Jazz again once in possesion of all the facts but surely he had a right to know at the begining? Not every boy/man will take such a bombshell as well as he has. Hence my referance to the few murders commited by men who were duped.

I said the thread was in danger of getting ridiculously angry because that's what seems to happen on almost any gender or trans thread at the moment.

So because it might happen I am not allowed to discuss it?

Datun when you read that list its very hard to see it as anything but a failure of child protection. Jazz's life choices are so massively compromised in ways that aren't going to be reversible, with no way of knowing how their sense of identity may have changed by thirty or fifty and how that lack of choice may impact. It seems deeply irresponsible of medical and social services professionals to have allowed a child to have got themselves into this situation, never mind helped.

I do see Maisy's point. Should her first words have been, 'hi, I'm Jazz and I'm trans?' Or is it okay to have a chat with someone first and then if there seems to be a connection say 'you need to know that I'm trans' then as long as the other person isn't going to be criticised for saying 'I have no further interest in getting to know you romantically but nice to have met you' I don't see the issue. There is of course the issue of how that could affect her self esteem especially considering how young she is.

If the other person is going to be accused of being transphobic for not considering a relationship with them then that's not on at all of course.

MaisyPops

I can see you've got tremendous empathy for Jazz. I don't think there is a poster on here who doesn't.

Re the boy asking for another date. Jazz is an international star. It's naive to think that this boy's decision was made purely outside of any other influence. Apart from anything else it doesn't make good TV to see Jazz strike out.

Jazz is absolutely going to face challenges. If left alone, Jazz statistically would have grown up to be an effeminate gay man. Fully functional. It's no coincidence that Jazz is attracted to boys, not girls.

I would just be very aware of getting caught up in manipulative spin, out of a desire to be supportive. This is an horrendous situation. The fact that people are being swayed in their opinion away from that truth is dangerous.

I have many issues with this tv show, but don't have an issue with the dating in the dark.

Jazz did tell the boy that she was trans before he asked her on a date. The whole thing seemed incredibly staged anyway. I assumed he knew the whole thing was for tv, and he's probably being paid. How could a bunch of teenagers afford that dating in the dark, with all the staff and food in a special location, for only six of them. It would have cost a fortune. It looked just to be set up for the tv show.

Many of the troubles Jazz is having seem down to her being on a reality show. The girls who stopped wanting to be her friends probably did so in part because of the pressure of having to be the 'supportive' friend group on a tv show, where any mistake you make would be highlighted as you being a bad person.

I don't find Jazz a sympathetic character. The whole thing just seems a tragedy, tbh.

I do think Noelle is immensely likeable and has a realistic and empathetic attitude to others. It's a shame the show isn't about her.

Am I the only one wondering at the whole speed-dating thing? Wasn't that invented for adults who lived such hectic lives they had no opportunity to meet potential partners, never mind spend the time getting to know each other? It just feels wrong for teenagers who go to school and so meet and have time to build relationships as part of their daily lives.

And in the dark? If I were invited to participate in something like that, I'd be torn between presuming they thought I was such a minger people would be put off just looking at me, or that they thought I was a bundle of prejudices who judged a book by its cover. Either way, I think I might feel a little bit insulted .

I followed a link yesterday to this story - it's a year old, and it made me so sad. This poor child has been on anti-depressants since they were in 6th grade (I'm assuming that's like primary 6, so about 11?). WTF? I feel so sorry for this child, they are being exploited. A real-life 'The Truman Show', being brought up in a goldfish bowl with no privacy.

Geth if it was just chatting I would say no Jazz should not have to share their identity but this was called dating in the dark not chatting in the dark.

I agree it is probably all staged but it has prompted me to ask the question:
I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

Oh, and despite being puberty-blocked and given cross-sex hormones - in this photo, I really don't think they pass. This poor child is being exploited and experimented on, and it's just wrong. I genuinely feel this is child abuse, akin to Munchaussen's by proxy .

Datun
I do empathise with her situation. I wouldn't know what it's like to go through that.
I mean, who are we kidding the entire dating thing is staged like most reality TV. Otherwise how else would 50% of the girls on a bizare teen date night end up being trans?

Equally, I'm not a lover of the trans activism lobby either with the way they (mainly MtF trans) silence women. I have reservations about hormone blockers on children as well. I just can't help but feel that some trans and gender threads on here quickly turn quite horrible.

The fact that Jazz has complained that boys find her a novelty and boys aren't interested comes as zero surprise to me.

And yes, I do think it's a safeguarding issue. I think the parents had taken leave of their senses, deciding an 11-year-old should go on puberty blockers.

An 11-year-old is considered far to young have a sexual relationship, but they are allowed to decide on their entire future sex life? Or it's complete absence?

Jazz is caught. She has to keep going because her family rely on the income.

Unless Jazz suddenly turns into an exceptionally well adjusted business woman who can exploit the rest of her life for financial gain, she is going to end up in complete obscurity with a very difficult life.

Maisy, I know what you mean about turning horrible. But when a trans thread is about children, I think there's a fairly wide consensus of great sympathy and distress for those children; and despair at how the adults have failed them.

I just can't help but feel that some trans and gender threads on here quickly turn quite horrible.

I agree. It's probably a function of how much of an online trans presence you are exposed to.

One day talking to transactivists
does reveal an inherent misogyny and a mindfuck of mammoth proportions.

People like Jazz fall into the androphillic category. I.e., not attracted to women, not predatory, not AGP, not interested in accessing women's spaces.

It's always useful to bear in mind there are two types.

In fact if alll transwomen were like Jazz this debate would never get off the ground. They are not the ones who are pushing to colonise women and womanhood.

Sorry, I meant to add that the transing of children would not be happening either.

God it sounds awful - no libido etc. What were his parents thinking?? 😡

Why is Jazz dating if no libido etc? I'm a bit confused.

Can her physical status be reversed? I'm showing my ignorance now, but could puberty be encouraged to happen for real? A life without a proper functioning sexual life sounds very sad indeed and I do not feel that a child is able to make that decision.

"I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?"
Well, the operative word here is 'lying'. And it could be lying about many things other than your sex. For example, claiming to be single when you're married. Working in a respectable job when you're a burglar. Or even something trivial. Just plain lying to present yourself as what you think the other person wants you to be. Taking away that person's choice.

Because lies are told for a reason, to get the liar what they want, and to prioritise what they want over what the lied-to wants.

So, they know you wouldn't date them if you knew they were married. They lie, and turn you into a mistress when you thought you were a girlfriend. Or in the case of transgendered, they lie and remove the possible future of a naturally-conceived family.

A relationship built on a lie is no relationship at all . And I don't think either party really gets what they want, not the lied-to and not even the liar; because they know they risk losing it all when they're found out. What a way to live.

And the whole thing makes me so sad. My DS loves babies, he always has and he is so lovely with them. My DD isn't interested at all. I also know how much children innately want to please their parents and they are so open to suggestion. It is a total headfuck to know that I could have told my DC that they were the 'wrong' gender throughout their childhoods based on something like a boy loving babies and thinking they are cute.

datun

Poor little mite