I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

[CosmicPineapple]

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

HollyBuckets

Exactly. It's so pervasive.

Run like a girl, cry like a girl, throw like a girl. If you're doing something considered unmasculine, you must be a girl.

She's the most beautiful accomplished woman now with children and a very happy life

Some of us are still Georges, but that does not make us any less of a woman.

Oh yes of course! Indeed, my sister is still a bit of a George. As are most women nowadays. Most women do things, and have an outlook on life, and expectations which are George rather than Anne!

Jen adds: "It's hard being a teenager anyway,(let alone) to have to wait until you're 16 for your body to develop. It's upsetting to think all her peers are going to be talking about periods and developing breasts and wearingbras and things and she will be waiting - a really tough thing for her to go through

Reading this I was suddenly struck by the fear that what's happening in real and online spaces restricting women's discussion of women's issues might drip into schools. I can easily imagine a group of girls being 'encouraged' not to exclude a trans girl through discussion of biological issues which don't affect them.

Reading this I was suddenly struck by the fear that what's happening in real and online spaces restricting women's discussion of women's issues might drip into schools. I can easily imagine a group of girls being 'encouraged' not to exclude a trans girl through discussion of biological issues which don't affect them

Or just as easily they could be asked not to discuss these issues because it upsets the trans people... !!

Thinking more about this and specifically about my sister. I think she may have felt she was in the "wrong" body as a child - she was quite fat and wore glasses and had sticky out teeth. She had been bullied by a teacher for being fat. Terrible days.

Then at 16 or so, she grew about 4 or 5 inches all in the legs and beck, and became conventionally beautiful in a "feminine " (again, conventional) way.

This was in the 70s and in a society where conventional beauty was how women were valued. Till is really - in my late 50s I'm only now coming to see the damage done by valuing women for looks above all else.

Anyway, in today's trans epidemic, she may well have presented as being in the "wrong" body until she was about 15 or 16. I dread to think what would happen to her nowadays.

Yes, that's what I meant Yet. Sorry- my post wasn't very clear.

Oh, I've re-read it Furry - it was clear. I just missed the Not!

Cui bono?

Oh look, it was the American pharma giant Merck who just happened upon this interesting phenomenon where erstwhile-believed-to-be-girls become boys during puberty

The lack of data and thus research is one of the biggest, non-emotional reasons why it's imperative that transmen and women are recorded as such on their medical records. We need to know the impact of hormonal therapy and surgical intervention, both negative and positive. We cannot collect this information if we change records retrospectively.

It's upsetting to think all her peers are going to be talking about periods and developing breasts and wearing bras

And kittens and unicorns and flowers and cakes and chocolate. Jesus.

When I was a teenager, we talked mainly about music, Smash Hits, clothes, boys, and going down town on Saturdays. All things that some of our male and female friends could talk about.

From a different angle...

It perplexes me how we now have a dynamic where it is seen as acceptable to pharmaceutically alter hormone levels in youngsters.

I keep thinking of the time I took clomid for fertility reasons. It blocks the estrogen receptors in the brain, and, no joke, it sent me potty. I got concerned about the effect on my mental state that I phoned the clinic, only to be told that it can have that effect on some women. The nurse jokingly said it was known to turn some women "into axe murderers."

So I think about that and wonder just what kind of damage puberty blockers and cross hormones might do in some cases. I know some transmen have taken testosterone and it puts them in early menopause with associated conditions that cannot be fixed. But that is just biochemical physical side effects, what about psychological?

Yet no one in a legal, ethical medical context seems to be talking about this at all.

It seems to me that Jazz has been hormonally castrated. The child has been turned into a kind of eunuch. How is this remotely acceptable? How are we even here? There's no way this kind of treatment of a child would be condoned in any other context.

What really concerns me is that I can sense a kind of voyeuristic "freakshow" cultural dynamic behind the show that I think has been fed by the last twenty years of reality TV constantly wanting to shock for ratings, and Jazz has been pulled into this phenomenon by vested interests for commercial reasons.

Have his parents, in particular his mother made him frightened of any masculine signs either in his personality or his body? There seems to be this rush to get hormones and now surgery.

I watch the programme and do feel that the mother is the one driving it for some reason. I get the impression that the father is weak but I also think he wouldn't push it so hard if it weren't for the mother.

Picking I completely agree with your last post

Do you think the driver is the trans thing or to just have a reality star who brings in an income
She seems similar to other parents of children stars and those awful pageant parents
I wonder how the ignored children in the family feel

Just watched a clip about Jazz. It makes me think of a boy in my dd class (yr 6); he loves pink, loves long hair, plays with Barbies and has a huge barbie dolls house in his bedroom. Gets bought makeup and princess dresses for his birthday. Preferred 'pink' things since he was small. BUT is a boy, knows he is a boy, likes being a boy and has no interest in being a girl - just likes 'girly' things. When did ridiculous social stereotypes start to dictate gender? If Jazz had liked jeans and blue tops, turned their nose up at anything pink, refused to wear dresses, loved climbing trees, riding bikes, going to Cubs, playing with water pistols and engineering kits would their parents still have taken her gender preference at 3 seriously? Because that is how my dd and a lot of her (female) friends play and have done for years.

Re big pharma. I remember a couple of years ago a fabulous poster called (I think) @WerkzallHours who noted the involvement of big pharma. Now that a lot of women eschew HRT (I managed menopause without any such medication partly because of the risks) and increasing numbers of women who are also stoping using hormonal contraception.

So where next? Aha, all those boys and girls who want to be other than they are **

** that is, perfectly normal human beings !!

Jen adds: "It's hard being a teenager anyway,(let alone) to have to wait until you're 16 for your body to develop. It's upsetting to think all her peers are going to be talking about periods and developing breasts and wearingbras and things and she will be waiting - a really tough thing for her to go through

Many actual girls don't develop until they are 16. Should they be given artificial hormones to hasten the process so they don't feel bad?

And when I was in primary school some peers already had breasts. I sure as hell didn't envy them! And when I was 12, girls asking each other whether they had started their periods yet didn't upset me, I was just happy it hadn't happened to me, yet!
But of course, I am actually female and knew it would happen sooner or later, anyway.

Just watched a couple of clips of Jazz.

Honestly - he doesn't pass that well. His mannerisms are those of a young gay guy.

Jazz answers almost every question with reference to and what must surely be false memories.

Jazz talks about - and despite her parents doing everything that Mermaids et al advocate, she still suffered severe depression

I don't think she passes either and does come across as a young gay man

She had been let down very badly by her controlling mother, weak father and unethical doctor.

Her mother could pass for trans

Sorry that wasn't very nice

Magdalen, no it's not nice but I had exactly the same thought!

I'm not sure about passing or not. I think she would if you didn't already know it's a he.
I feel very sorry for him and his siblings and whoever else is being exploited this way.

The chemical castration thing is a whole other horror show

Has anyone heard of Dr Zucker in Canada. He was an expert in his field at a transgender clinic but challenged the affirmative approach in transgender kids I think his methods were to look for any underlying mental illness that could attribute to the dysphoria and teaching children that they don't have to commit to a gender stereotype- there are other ways express themselves whilst retaining identity as boy/ girl. If no change after treatment he would assist with transition. Anyways astonishingly he was fired for not going along with the new way of thinking. I think his approach seemed entirely sensible. I don't know what is driving this push into making children make decisions about this at such an early age and why it's unacceptable for professionals to suggest an alternative method of treatment.