Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether me (a hetrosexual woman) having sex with a MTT would be denying her biology and transphobic (because I'm not interested in women, I only want to sleep with men) or just mean that I'm actually a lesbian

I'm so glad I'm not young and having to navigate all this shit!

When is an abuser not an abuser?
When he says he's not.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jean-hatchet/when-is-an-abuser-not-an-_b_14837776.html

The Duluth model of power and control places “denial and minimising” of behaviour as central to the abuser’s tactics
www.thehotline.org/2013/08/taking-a-spin-around-the-power-and-control-wheel/

Staying

I am saddened by how little compassion MN are able to show towards trans people.
Yes, there are issues, but have a heart! The people who have undertaken this transition have in some cases been carrying a burden and heartache for decades. Their decision is probably one of the hardest to make, families can be broken and careers lost.
Just stop and show some kindness first.

Do you have any compassion for their wives and kids?

What do you mean though Ath? What posts are you directing that emotional post to?

How do you feel about TW in sports and lesbians being called bigots for refusing to consider sleeping with anyone with a dick?
Do these things not make you angry?

athrawes, should my compassion extend to having smear tests done by someone with a penis? If so, why does compassion apply to them but not to me?

You do realise that self-identification means that no actual transition is actually necessary, athrawes?

If you have a penis, you're not a woman. If you question that. Yes, we respectfully disagree.

I'm almost worried to ask, incase I get my head bitten off, but has anyone actually got any figures of a women being attacked by a transwoman in a toilet, gym, hospital or other women's only space?? If there is then I'd just be curious to have a read. Thanks :)

SenseiWoo, your comment really captures a lot about what makes me worried;

'but where women's rights are involved, concerns are almost never overblown'

Those who try and quieten women by saying they're hysterical or over-reacting should be viewed with caution.

suzie

If you aren't particularly bothered by the feminist analysis of why gender is harmful to women and empowers men, then okay.

If you feel as though the transgender population is so minuscule as to not be worth considering as harmful, then okay.

But you are advocating kindness, over women's rights and feelings.

How does that work when the number of people you're advocating for is as minuscule as you think?

Why should we be subjected to the tyranny of the minority?

But the main point where you are mistaken is the number of people who transition because of a sexual motivation. Having autogynephilia does not preclude you from having gender dysphoria too.

Every study states that of the number of transwomen who remain attracted to women, between 80% and 100% of them are autogynephiles. Every one of them who insists they have a lady dick and persecute lesbians, by definition do not have gender dysphoria. Those are the autogynephiles. There are only two reasons for men to transition. One is AGP, the other is gender dysphoria.

88% of the transgender population, those people who are protected by gender identity and gender expression laws, are, as reported by their own advocacy organizations, males with a psychosexual disorder. (1)

Many men with psychosexual disorders practice their fetish in the privacy of their own homes. But as many as 13,946,348 of them in the US, at the time of this writing, will be free to practice their fetish in public, in front of your children, in women’s locker rooms, in the girls bathroom at school

outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/when-is-90-not-substantially-all/

It is far more prevalent than you think. In the last three weeks alone four women on these threads have told how their husbands have come out as trans and have AGP.

Any man who has been married and transitions will have AGP.

Go onto any trans forum and you will find just a wholesale acceptance of how the majority have, and talk about, AGP.

Not only do they out number the genuine transsexuals, they are the ones campaigning for access to women's spaces. It's a sexually motivated campaign.

They have hijacked the cause of people like the transwoman on this thread as a means of legitimising their agenda.

It's lovely that you want to be kind. It's affirmative. But do you really think that feminists who have championed the cause of every minority in the book have now turned into hateful bigots? Uninformed and ignorant?

Think about it.

Well PirateQueenie. If you're suggesting that actual encounters with transpeople are very rare. I would agree. Hence me wondering why women with a multitude of issues on MN are constantly made to answer to these vague trans issues.

MTT voyeur in the women's changing rooms in Target

MTT caught masturbating toilets in Target

Olennas - that is one story. I'm asking for statistics and figures (if there are any), that would suggest members of the trans community are a threat to women.
I haven't found much when I've looked myself, although I did find this figure -

a 2005 survey by the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault (CALCASA) concluded that "one in three lesbian-identified participants had been sexually assaulted by a woman, and one in four had experienced violence within a lesbian relationship. Eight years later, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted the first-ever national survey of intimate partner violence by sexual orientation and discovered that lesbians (and gay men) experience equal or higher rates of partner violence than the straight-identified population."

I would never suggest that this is a legitimate study, as I've not fully looked into it, but I just want to give an example of pulling one story from the Web doesn't necessarily mean there is credible threat.

PirateQueenie - do you think it unfair for women to not want a penis in their lockeroom? Just respond to that please. It's a simple question.

Felicity - I have no issue whatsoever with gender neutral spaces, as I don't automatically perceive someone to be a predator based on the fact they have the opposite genitals to me.

pirate

When some states in the US started to allow transwomen access to women's bathrooms, trans crimes weren't collated. As women started to get worried, more people begin to record these crimes.

Transactivists insisted no transwoman had never attacked anybody. They were then shown the first video below on all sorts of websites Their argument then changed to say that those were not really transwomen, just men pretending to be. Of course, this doesn't matter at all in terms of safety, but nonetheless it is what they said.

So women began recording the crimes of transwomen who were officially representatives of the trans community. That's the second video below.

Every single one of these people would have legitimate access to potential victims based on the bathroom laws of their state.

pirate

When some states in the US started to allow transwomen access to women's bathrooms, trans crimes weren't collated. As women started to get worried, more people begin to record these crimes.

Transactivists insisted no transwoman had never attacked anybody. They were then shown the first video below on all sorts of websites Their argument then changed to say that those were not really transwomen, just men pretending to be. Of course, this doesn't matter at all in terms of safety, but nonetheless it is what they said.

So women began recording the crimes of transwomen who were officially representatives of the trans community. That's the second video below.

Every single one of these people would have legitimate access to potential victims based on the bathroom laws of their state.

"I am saddened by how little compassion MN are able to show towards trans people."

Do you think 'trans people' are one amorphous group, Athrawes? Or a collection of individuals? With individual reasons for transitioning?

Yes, some of them will be 'traditional' transexuals, those who have gender dysmorphia. I do feel compassion for them.

Some of them will be confused teenagers - some gay, some gender-nonconforming - who are being persuaded by the activists that they are trans, and encouraged to take drugs whose side-effects will have a permanent effect on their bodies. I do feel compassion for them.

Some of them will be autistic and, like the teenagers, will be persuaded that they will feel 'right' as 'the other gender'. I do feel compassion for them.

Some of them will be children, who play with the toys stereotypically associated with the other gender, whose parents will be terrified by the 'do you want a happy trans child or a dead-by-suicide child' rhetoric. I do feel compassion for them.

Some of them will be children whose parents either desperately wanted a child of the other gender, or who would otherwise hospitalise their children through Munchausen's by proxy for their own attention-seeking ends, or who are homophobic and don't want a gay child. I feel compassion for them. (And disgust for their parents.)

Some of them will be young people 'playing' at being trans - and remember, trans is an umbrella which can encompass such small moves towards transitioning as just wearing some vaguely androgynous clothing and declaring oneself 'gender fluid' (e.g. a bloke on Tuesday, a girl on Wednesday). They don't need my compassion.

And some will be adult men with autogynephilia. They absolutely do not have my compassion.

Oh, and top of them (and probably a few more) there are the straight male predators who will use the current confusion as a golden opportunity. Do you think I should make the mistake of wasting my compassion on them?

Datun thank you, this was the sort of thing I was wanting to have a look at :) and thanks for being informative without starting an argument!

Felicity - I have no issue whatsoever with gender neutral spaces, as I don't automatically perceive someone to be a predator based on the fact they have the opposite genitals to me.

Good for you. That wasn't the question. Many people don't want "gender neutral spaces" for a variety of reasons related to privacy and dignity as well as safety. Do you have any empathy for them at all?

But nice holier than thou virtue signalling.

Wow. I actually am shocked at some people's attitudes on here. I don't know whether it's because you're anonymously sat at laptops or on phones but is this the way you'd speak to people face to face?
Of course I have sympathy for anyone who doesn't want to share a space with trans women and I think people have the right to that. What's funny about this is that none of you have any idea about my opinion of trans women yet are so quick to argue your side when all I did was ask for some more information about the topic at hand.