Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

From zero to Godwin's law in ONE POST!

Some sort of record, surely?

I'm playing a wee violin for the world's loneliest feminist.

"Gosh it's lonely being the only feminist!... Whenever I've posted against the Transphobic Hegemony I'm inevitably deluged with supportive PMs"

I see these childish claims from annoying deluded arses on other forums. "Oh, lots if folk agree with th me, you should see all the PMs i get in support!"

Most posters simply daren't say a word against

What on earth are are you talking about. This is MN. People have very strong opinions on which way up to peg socks for goodness sake, and will defend those opinions robustly - what on earth makes you think they wouldn't dare to discuss trans issues?!

'Terfing

@NotCarylChurchill

Can you please give a simple definition of the word 'woman'?'

I'd be interested in an answer to this too.

Yes:

Define "Woman" if you could

And if you wish to expand:
Female
Gender and sex

NotCarylChurchill

If you feel strongly about the issue, please engage.

It's one of the characteristics of both transactivists and their allies, that they rarely engage in the debate.

If you just have a feeling that being gender critical, or disagreeing with the trans-ideology is wrong, can you not see that the refusal to talk about it rather undermines that?

Perhaps you know someone who is trans and feel that you need to support them, no matter what. Which is entirely understandable.

But, as a feminist, you must know that it's not about individual people. Additionally, there are so many variations of trans now, that one person is simply not representative of where the ideology is heading.

Why not put forward your points, and address people's counterpoints?

And for what it's worth, I disagree that people who object to the ideology are now keeping quiet. I think there are just far fewer of them. As the debate continues, people's opinion changes.

Caryl won't come back and engage, she never does. She posts her "you're all a bunch of fat meanies" posts and then never returns. In the same way as various other people do to tell FWR that we're all just a bunch of big old meanies.

I'd not even bother with them. If they don't have the courage to back up their frankly ridiculous claims, they aren't worth the time it takes to ask them.

Xenophile

I completely agree. I always ask though. Just so it's on record.

I've only ever seen a proper debate with actual trans people go one of two ways.

Either they are a genuine transsexual, have no interest in appropriating women's lives or spaces, concur with feminists but find presenting as female helps their gender dysphoria.

Or they are inarticulate and demonstrate typical narcissistic rage.

Both scenarios generally follow the same script.

The script that allies follow, in my experience, is telling you you're bigoted and almost always saying but what's the harm? Why do you care? What difference does it make?

Which, whilst it may be a friendly live and let live attitude, is just an irrational response.

Apart from the fact that there is material harm involved in the ideology, suggesting someone agrees with something that is patently untrue, on the basis that it's harmless, is just weird.

I'm playing a wee violin for the world's loneliest feminist

ladyballs, that made me snort!

Even though it's frustrating as hell, I can live with the hit and run approach of Caryl (and others) People with reasonable points to make and a good faith approach to making them don't need to do that, so... every time a "plopper" (thank you rufus!) does his or her thing, I imagine one more woman turning towards feminism and away from being gaslighted (gaslit?). So it's all good.

Every time a plopper plops, a transactivist ideal dies.

Is that a pop song or MN Peter Pan? I Can't decide.

NotCarylChurchill

Op- there is a small group of hardcore bigots who are virulently transphobic

Are you sure you want to align yourself with people who call women bigoted and transphobic? And the reasons why they do so?

themidnightminds.org/2017/05/06/transgender-health-is-a-womens-rights-issue/

Here we go with feminism being attacked for not looking out for trans women again.

Jesus wept. I can't even read the article. Every single sentence in the first two paragraphs is completely wrong.

What a dunderhead.

"Ciswomen! Stop fighting for the right for pregnancy not to be deemed a pre-existing condition! You nasty TERFs aren't centering our needs!"

"Most posters simply daren't say a word against the received wisdom that transwomen are rapists or mentally ill."
Really? Received wisdom? How pejorative.

Are transwomen rapists? Well, to date the statistics available show that transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as other males - so yes, some will be rapists, at the same rate as men are rapists. Although the waters are muddied by the predatory males (who are not transgender in the slightest) who will nonetheless use the transgender confusion as a technique to enter female spaces. Predators are opportunist, the current confusion presents opportunities.

Are transwomen mentally ill? Doesn't that depend rather on which type of transwoman they are? NotCaryl does not seem to be able to see the variety, lumping all transwomen into one amorphous mass. Quite insulting, really.

Well, those who genuinely believe that their body is 'wrong' are mentally ill, in pretty much the same way as someone with anorexia is mentally ill. Personally, I think these people are in the vast minority amongst those who are claiming transgender status. I have great sympathy for these individuals, and if transitioning socially/surgically eases their distress, I am glad transitioning is available to them.

For the rest - some will be autogynephyles. Is a fetish a mental illness? I don't know, but - probably. Narcissism is probably a feature, is that considered a mental illness, or just a disorder?

Then there are the gay men who are being influenced to transition as a form of homophobic conversion therapy. No mental illness, but they are being gaslighted by the transactivists, and they have my sympathy.

Then there are the teenagers who are struggling with finding their sexuality, and the natural period of feeling like an outsider is being used against them, with this trans juggernaut whispering in their ears. Some will be gay, some will be rebels, all will be gender non-conforming (as everyone is) and they should be allowed to find their feet by themselves. Vulnerable teens should be supported, not swayed to suit someone else's agenda. Like some gay men, they are being gaslighted.

And then there's the arses. The genderfluid transwoman-on-the-weekend types. The gender tourists. 'Trans is the new black'. Some will just be shallow, which whilst irritating are not mentally ill. Some would probably fall into the predatory opportunist.

I do wish NotCaryl would define who she means when she uses the blanket term 'transwoman'. I suspect her definition is narrower than the full reality, so it would be useful to know who she means.

On the plus side, I have now googled who Caryl Churchill is.

lumping all transwomen into one amorphous mass

It is always amusing that when TRA arguments are pushed hard, they often seem to have strands of transphobia running through them like through a stick of rock.

To put it another way; if you fall in love with a woman who is caring and kind and funny and beautiful and smart, and then discover she has a penis and you are no longer interested because of that alone or no longer see her as a woman, yes, that is transphobic and shitty

Unless you are a transwoman of course. Then it's just fine , you cam choose not to sleep with her because it will "trigger your gender dysphoria".

It's only Lesbians who are ' transphobic and shitty " . Naturally, they have the right to choose who they have sex with.

Got it.

Funny how this sounds a lot like men telling women who they can and can't have sex with.

I'm disappointed to see that the post saying that gender critical feminists are exactly the same as Nazis has been deleted.

I would much rather have seen it stand.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think it is the pro trans lobby who are deleting these posts.

Brace yourselves for a Daily Fail link. Sorry.

To answer the now non-existent OP's original question.

For weirdos like this sex offender.

dailym.ai/2qhL1qZ

Oh gingernaut that male being referred to as she when he is clearly a dirty perv paedo bloke. Such an insult to his victim and an insult to women

Weirdo is also playing some sort of disabled card and starting a new life far, far away.

Awwww. Judgy felt sorry for poor misunderstood pervert.

Exactly gingernaut

Why hasn't the lonely feminist returned? Does someone want to pm her a nudge?

(Not being goady! I genuinely want to hear her answers to our questions!)