Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

That point has actually been brought up several times throughout this thread (and every single bloody thread about this) venus yet she still continues to feign wide eyed innocence about the whole thing.

Talking to them perhaps?

Oh really? So how would that conversation go then?

kua a fetish is part of a sexual act, a trans person believe they are the wrong sex. Is that really so difficult to understand?

venusinscorpio I agree lesbians have it more difficult than pretty much every other group. It's more to do with the male view of female sexuality than anything else and it's very sad.

As for the medical examination stuff I really hope the NHS will see the issue and make sure their staff cannot abuse their position, which they should be doing anyway. You have the right to refuse treatment, particularly something non-urgent like a smear, by anyone. I refuse to see certain doctors because I don't like them and feel they talk down to me and refuse to go back to the community midwife I started seeing. The surgery can't refuse me treatment because I have an opinion about a member of their staff.

I'm just saying I directly replied to her comment personally and spelt out how it was a problem for her and she claims no one responded to her point.

venusinscorpio I agree lesbians have it more difficult than pretty much every other group. It's more to do with the male view of female sexuality than anything else and it's very sad.

So, the answer is for women to push back against misogyny then? Good good.

a trans person believe they are the wrong sex.

Not necessarily, no.

Ok if I'm going to start being referred to as "she" and "naive" then I'm giving up on trying to have a discussion.

There really is no need to be so rude.

Suzie, if you mischaracterise people's concerns as like "gay fear" don't be surprised if you get called naive. That is rude.

Ok if I'm going to start being referred to as "she" and "naive" then I'm giving up on trying to have a discussion.

What are we supposed to call you? Your username on here does heavily imply that you're female.

I'm still confused about how we're supposed to be able to tell the difference between a harmless transwoman who genuinely believes their body is wrong and a transwoman with a pervy fetish.

^Suzie perhaps you could explain the difference between fetishists and transwomen^

I'll ask again Care to answer, I would have thought this would be an easy one

"As for the medical examination stuff I really hope the NHS will see the issue and make sure their staff cannot abuse their position, which they should be doing anyway. You have the right to refuse treatment, particularly something non-urgent like a smear, by anyone. I refuse to see certain doctors because I don't like them and feel they talk down to me and refuse to go back to the community midwife I started seeing. The surgery can't refuse me treatment because I have an opinion about a member of their staff."

I wish I shared your confidence. Sadly, I think the way things are going, we will end up in a situation where to turn down a smear performed by a transwoman is seen the same way as turning down a medical procedure by a HCP from an ethnic minority - as an act of hateful bigotry on the part of the patient which then puts them into the category of people the health service is not obliged to treat.

Think of that CPS leaflet on school toilets. Note that the emphasis is not on the male students who threatened real, physical violence in the first place, but on the female students committing a "hate crime". I'm afraid that does not fill me with confidence for the future.

SuziePink Tue 02-May-17 22:22:29
That was a disingenuous answer, and it doesnt address any of the problems women face right now.
No, I will not spend hours talking to every person to work out if they are a threat or not, thats not how staying safe works.

''People who want to abuse other people will find a way to do it regardless'' Thats not a good enough reason to let someone with a penis share space with women and children.

We have sex segregation right now, why should we change it? Let trans people have a third space, or get them to realise that not one of them has been assaulted in a male bathroom.

Making it possible for any man to announce he identifies as a woman and then giving him the legal right to access any female only space is ridiculous.

suzie, I haven't been rude. If you mean that by being offered a MtT for cervical smear I have the right to refuse I'm not totally convinced. From what I can find that right is not part of any bill regarding self-identification. It is simple - any person identifying as female must be treated as female. So a a patient I could easily be told to accept a MtT HCP. In that instance I would, simply, go away. My life would literally be at risk as the other persons right o self determination would be deemed more important.

Exactly M0stly - if I refuse treatment from a nurse because they are black, my GP can decide to remove me from their books. If the legislation that was working through Parliament until recently had gone through, it would have made a patient's refusal of treatment from a MTT the same (even though it's clearly not!)

Depressingly, the RCN gender and gender reassignment fails to distinguish between sex and gender in their guidance to nurses who face discrimination at work. But interestingly they claim that someone suffering from gender dysphoria could be eligible for protection under disability legislation. I hadn't heard that before.

Bashing would be saying 'trans people are less than other people, shouldn't have the right to marry or vote, should be locked up etc'.

Saying a man in a dress is still a man is just being truthful. Saying gender is a bullshit tool of the patriarchy is also just being truthful.

^kua a fetish is part of a sexual act, a trans person believe they are the wrong sex. Is that really so difficult to understand? ^

It really isn't hard for us to accept the true trans sexuals. Twas a given, never has/was an issue. A courtesy from us females.

You lot NAH. Get the feck out of our space you wannabees

Those that consistently attack this forum, preaching at us, have no idea in how they are making it far worse for themselves and unfortunately for those who came before them.

"Talking to them perhaps?"

Suzie. How exactly should my teenage DDs start this conversation when they encounter a transwoman in the gym changing rooms? Or toilet? Or hospital ward? Why is this their responsibility?

How would you expect that conversation to go? I expect that the power dynamics between an adult male and teenage girl would not work in the girl's favour.

We don't usually teach children to quizz random adult males about their sexual preferences in order to keep themselves safe. If we did, we wouldn't rely on the men's responses being honest.

I'm a lesbian. I'm not out to anyone in real life and to be completely honest, I am certainly not coming out now that all this trans activism is going on. I'm terrified to come out as a lesbian right now tbh

I don't care if they mean no harm or not or what their motivation is
There are some spaces I do not want to share with biological men.
If my daughter goes to college or university I don't want her forced to share a room with a biological male who identified as a woman
I also want the right to have female sex only groups

StayingFirmlyInTheCloset Please dont be scared to post. You have potential friends here

I've seen the way transwomen have been harassing and bullying lesbians to have sex with them.

I've seen the way lesbians have been assaulted and labelled bigots for not wanting to have sex with transwomen.

I've seen the way the word lesbian has been redefined as someone who is attracted to women rather than women attracted to the same sex.

I've seen that bloody illustration from the CPS of a lesbian giving a transwomen a blow job.

I don't need any of this shit right now. I had just about finally accepted myself for who I am and then this happens

I'm a lesbian. I'm attracted to women with vaginas, boobs and hips. I'm not attracted to men who feel like women and I don't want to give them a blow job thanks but apparently that view would lead to me being harassed and threatened and labelled a transphobic bigot

To clarify on proposed changes to the law:

The Women & Equalities Committee Transgender Equality Report made lots of recommendations, among them, two big changes to existing legislation:

1. The Equality Act 2010

• to change the protected characteristic 'gender reassignment' to 'gender identity'
• to remove the exemption for women only services to exclude transwomen if they have a Gender Recognition Certificate

This is what Maria Miller's Private Member's bill was about. It has failed because it has run out of time. I expect we will see a similar if not identical bill in the near future and next time it could be a government bill, not a private member's bill, in which case it is far more likely to become law.

2. The Gender Recognition Act 2004

• to move away from a medicalised procedure and towards a simple system of self-declaration for the purposes of getting a Gender Recognition Certificate.

In response to the Transgender Equality report, the govt have committed to reviewing the GRA. I don't see this one going away, although it might be held up for a while because everybody is busy with Brexit.

I don't get it. Why is not wanting to have sex with someone with a penis transphobic?

Surely it's up to me who I have sex with?

Gay men aren't being threatened and bullied into having sex with transmen. So why are lesbians?

Same answer as ever, Staying - it's not about sex, it's about power, and more specifically male power over women.

Staying - male privilege, pure and simple. The same age-old attitude that women are there to provide sex to any man who fancies it. Same old misogyny, fancy new words for it. (With a side order of that great summing up: "right wing men think women should be the property of individual men, left wing men think women should be the collective property of all men".)

I am so sorry you have been left feeling this way. And yes, it is lesbians who are specifically under attack - there is no pressure on gay men to go down on vulvas (nor on straight women, for that matter, but that's not because we have status, it's simply because we should be engaged in the much more important task of sucking male dick), nor is there any pressure on straight men to suck dick. It is specifically lesbians who are being coerced.