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Original poster

Men bashing

512 replies

PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 14:57

Hi all,

I don't have a real purpose to this thread other than to just voice my confusion and possibly hear some other opinions.

I would identify as feminist - although for want of a better word, I would rather say I'm an egalitarian. I enjoy reading these threads, and comment on some. But what really disheartens me is all the man-bashing Ive seen. I have a male partner who is my world ♥ wonderful male friends and family members, and when I read some of the things on here I can't help but feel very defensive of the men in my life.

Is this the new wave of feminism? Or am I missing something? When I was growing up (with my mum as an avid feminist), I never heard "men this" or "men that" it was always about how women can strengthen and empower themselves WITHOUT putting men down.

OP posts:
Xenophile · 01/05/2017 17:37

Basket... I think that's a fair summation. Most of the people who make off the cuff comments about how useless men are at X, or how men just don't see dirt or whatever aren't feminists.

It's also mainly men and non feminists who think that men just can't help themselves but be violent or rape or watch porn or whatever other awful thing.

Feminists know that men are capable of being rational, empathetic human beings. We just expect them to be so, and if they aren't, then we call them out on that.

Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 17:38

WellErrr, no need to feel sorry for me. Despite my lack of knowledge on this subject I assure you I am not a naive little wall flower living in a bubble. And I do believe that the majority of men are decent and respectful, despite high rates of violence being men. Would you say the majority are not decent and respectful?

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/05/2017 17:39

Thank you Xenophile Down to 3 cats at the moment, but have had 4.

BeyondStrongAndStable · 01/05/2017 17:40

Yy basket or "oh everyone needs to train their man", like they're a puppy, ffs. 🙄

Ps SGM - I didn't realise you were back on mn! How have I not seen you?! Grin

RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 17:40

Queenie that's ok, I've had my ass handed to me on a plate more than once on here,but I've learned from it. I'm still learning. I still don't "see" certain things. I still struggle with the "equalitarian" point of view i had when i first came on here. And i still get my ass handed to me on a plate every now and then Grin

BasketOfDeplorables · 01/05/2017 17:43

The 'all men are rapists' is often thrown about by men who don't like feminists. They wilfully misinterpret that ANY man is a potential threat, with the idea that we think ALL men are violent rapists.

As a kid I was told not to talk to strangers, and women are advised to cross the street if someone is walking behind them if it's late at night. I've heard men complain about this. About how women treat them like they're rapists by crossing the street. It's the same as me complaining about a child not speaking to me because they don't know me.

I've never been afraid, and wouldn't think of myself as weak, despite being little. But would I advise anyone to do as I do? Nope - in a bar 'no thank you, I'm just here with my friends' has often landed me in some scary situations, whereas 'sorry I have a boyfriend' is usually safer. Politely saying I'm not interested has often ended with threats of violence from groups of men.

WellErrr · 01/05/2017 17:45

Worldwide OP? No, sadly I don't believe the majority worldwide are decent.

And I was talking about the little bubble I used to be in, not you.

RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 17:47

Basket that "man bashing" is a by product of patriarchy,the bumbling man that's doesn't do because he can't. And it's a bone thrown at women (at least that's how i see it) that says so what if he is an inconsiderate,lazy,abusive,neglectful bastard... look how awesome the woman in his life is,bless him the poor sod.

The "man bashing" OP refers to is men(as a class) as predators(abusers,rapists,abusers). Which is not bashing really it's the sad reality of many women and children.

Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 17:48

Basket - same here actually, I've had some ropey situations with men not accepting I've declined their advances too. But weirdly I've never gone away thinking that MAN was dreadful, but just that that PERSON is dreadful. I don't know, maybe this does make me a bit naive or silly 😕 I don't know!
There was a situation once whereby my partner and I went for dinner and when we left the restaurant I walked ahead and he waited and held the door open for the woman who was leaving behind him. She had a real go at him telling him "I don't need a man to hold the door open for me", as if he was patronising her. The thing is he does this for anyone, he's just polite! I was really surprised that anyone would be offended by this!

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Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 17:51

WellErrr, Oh sorry I misread that - I thought you meant me!
Ah see I think that's a real shame, yes statistically 90+% of violence is committed by men, but that doesn't mean that it's the majority of men. It probably is still a very small percentage of men who abuse women, although I accept that figure increases I'm certain cultures and populations.

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BasketOfDeplorables · 01/05/2017 17:52

I wouldn't say that I think the majority of men are bad, Pirate, but I've been being obviously harassed frequently and no one has attempted to intervene. Maybe not bad, but not helping to solve the problem.

I am 5'1" and have stepped in to ask a woman if she needs help numerous times. The 'I'm not getting involved' types are part of the problem.

I just mean that it's rare for a man to step in to call another man out. And not just because they are physically afraid, but because they're socially afraid. Plenty of times men I thought were good and decent have stood by while a friend or colleague has said something awful about women, and just didn't want to rock the boat. I can understand that they're afraid, but it's still crap behaviour.

Xenophile · 01/05/2017 17:53

That's sad, maybe the woman had had a shitty night or a row with the man she was with, because it's not really a feminist thing to get arsey with people holding doors open or offering to help carry buggies down steps or whatever.

There's a difference between critiquing the ideas behind chivalry (women are weak, in body and mind, so we'll just take care of the poor little darlings) and getting a cob on when some random man holds a door open.

BasketOfDeplorables · 01/05/2017 17:57

Yes, Rebel, I agree. I'm just saying that putting men down is not something feminists do, it's something the patriarchy does. It positions being a good father as something beneath men, whereas feminist expect men to be an equal partner and value a man's input into a child's life.

stitchglitched · 01/05/2017 17:58

Society needs to view men less as individuals and more as a class as a whole IMO. How many men murder women? I don't think a day goes by where I don't see an article about yet another case. Yet they are all reported as individual men. Nobody joins up the dots and calls it an epidemic of male violence, except feminists. If anything else was killing at the rate men do there would be an outcry, it would dominate headlines. Remember swine flu? But another man kills someone and it is no big deal.

I have great men in my life. I'm the mother of a son. But I'm still able to understand that men as a class oppress and harm women as a class. I wasn't raped because I was an individual who came across another individual. I was raped because I'm a woman who came across a man.

Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 18:05

"How many men murder women? I don't think a day goes by where I don't see an article about yet another case. Yet they are all reported as individual men. Nobody joins up the dots and calls it an epidemic of male violence, except feminists."

That's a really good point stitch and yes, I probably had always looked at each case, as opposed to the reasons WHY so many men are committing these heinous crimes. Thanks for helping me look at the bigger picture, this is why I posted.

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RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 18:06

But weirdly I've never gone away thinking that MAN was dreadful, but just that that PERSON is dreadful.

Stop and think why they were dreadful? Why couldn't they just take a simple no? Why did they think they had a right to your body/attention?
And then think how many women have acted in the same way? And if they did would you or a man feel threatened the same way you did then?

BasketOfDeplorables · 01/05/2017 18:13

Pirate, have you ever been sexually harassed by a woman? It has never happened to me. I'm in my thirties, I've been shouted at in the street a million times, but it's never been a woman. Considering that a significant percentage of women are lesbian or bisexual, I should expect to have experienced it at least once, considering countless men have done it.

Equally, women do some things that annoy me. Like the ones who pretend they don't eat because they think women aren't supposed to act like they enjoy food. However, I see that as a bit sad that they've been limited in being themselves, rather than anything from really bloody annoying to a real danger to my safety, which street harassment can be.

deckoff · 01/05/2017 18:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BasketOfDeplorables · 01/05/2017 18:21

Recently one of my male colleagues was sexually harassed including being inappropriately touched. He was really shaken by it and at one point got a bit upset as he thought I wasn't taking it seriously enough. I'd said something like 'another day, another arsehole'. It made me realise how much I minimise that behaviour as something I expect to happen regularly, and we had a good talk about it all. If I let it get me down I'd be a mess, and like most men, he hadn't realised it happened so frequently and was genuinely shocked that he's managed to basically ignore it until it happened to him.

tartansnowman · 01/05/2017 18:22

OP, if the point of feminism is to empower women, that suggests they are not currently empowered.

What do you think causes this disempowerment?

Maybe you could give an example of how women can become empowered as an illustration?

FirstShinyRobe · 01/05/2017 18:24

Lovely to see you responding so positively to the replies, PirateQueenie, and engaging so willingly. I don't post here much anymore (was always here under previous name changes) because of the proliferation of posts in the vein as your op, but only as post and runs.

May I ask, how do you think your beliefs that you espoused in your early posts would make a material difference in the world? And also, do you ever have discussions about feminist issues with the men in your life?

RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 18:25

OP the point of feminism (in my eyes) is the bigger picture,which is also why men are referred to as a class. You couldn't really build up and challenge the bigger picture if you only used individual examples.

cadnowyllt · 01/05/2017 18:25

Well, this is fun.

Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 18:25

Deckoff - he didn't hold it open for her to go through first, but when he walked through he just held it so it didn't shut on her face, and believe me he does that to 6'4 men too!

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Original poster
PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 18:30

Firstshinyrobe - I think I hadn't really thought about it to be honest. I work had (training to be a nurse), volunteer and give to charities. I guess it's a bit naive of me but I guess I just figured if I do everything I can then that's my part of life sorted. That even feels silly me articulating that now!

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