Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Cis labels

261 replies

sooperdooper · 24/04/2017 21:57

I'm kind of new to reaching 'Peak Trans' and I had this thought...

So if, as the trans lobby keeps repeating 'trans women are women', why would they need to call biological women 'cis'?

If they really are female there would be no need for a distinction because by simply 'identifying' as female they would be

So they've made the distinction themselves by labelling biological women cis, doesn't that make the whole discussion about 'trans women being women' invalid by their own admission?

Sorry if this is totally obvious but I'm trying to work through my own thoughts on this

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 28/04/2017 18:47

I maintain that anyone who expects people to walk on eggshells around them, for any reason, is a narcissistic arsehole. Amazing how many I've come across since discussing gender theory online. Quite a coincidence, I'm sure.

LilacMarin19 · 28/04/2017 18:56

NotCaryl

The definition of a woman is an adult female. Just like girl is a child female. So in what way are transwomen real women?

They are nowhere near the same as me.

venusinscorpio · 28/04/2017 19:01

Don't call them transwomen. That's why we're in this situation. We should never have pandered this much. They are trans identified males. They are not a "subset of women" while women are another subset. Bullshit.

venusinscorpio · 28/04/2017 19:03

That was a general point, not directed at you personally Lilac.

CharlieSierra · 28/04/2017 19:19

Gallavich, not at all. Trans women not being women is someone's belief

No, it isn't. Transwomen are not women by any normal widely understood definition. The definition of woman is adult human female. We all understand what type of human being this it, and that it's the one which all being well can bear offspring. In fact transwomen are women is a belief, and it's a belief with no basis in fact or biology. It's magical thinking.

LilacMarin19 · 28/04/2017 19:22

Transwomen not being women is a statement of fact - it transcends belief.

What acronym can I use for trans-identities male? Is it TiM? MiT? MtT?

venusinscorpio · 28/04/2017 19:24

I'd use MTT.

RogueBiscuit · 28/04/2017 19:27

Transwomen are women

Well tell them that. Because the internet is heaving with transwoman looking to date cis women only. They specifically state No trans or crossdressers.
m.facebook.com/groups/349224978582927?tn=R

If, as you say they are really women , how do you explain the discrimination towards transwoman from transwoman? Why do they discriminate? Transwoman are women apparently. Yet they won't date them.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe these men are women. They don't believe it themselves ffs.

venusinscorpio · 28/04/2017 19:28

Even if it could be proven that women had a particular type of brain, and trans identified males shared that brain, that wouldn't automatically make them a woman. But there is no such proof, so no question for anyone sane, rational and honest that they are anything other than male.

PhyllisNights · 28/04/2017 19:28

CharlieSierra, I am speaking my truth, not yours. Please respect that it is my opinion. You and I cannot comprehend what it must feel like for some to be born male or female and feel that they belong to a gender that is completely opposite.

CharlieSierra · 28/04/2017 19:39

I do respect you have a different opinion than me Phyllis, but yours is not based in fact and mine is. My feelings about someone born into one sex and feeling like they should be the other is that they need help and possibly treatment. I don't think that they should be able to demand that I deny biological facts in order to collude with their feelings, or that I should agree to concede hard won women's rights. I don't need another word to define me, I am a woman, an adult human female. Transwomen are a subset of men, not of women.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 28/04/2017 19:54

Women is the correct term to use for myself and other adult human females it's the correct word and no one is confused about it

Transwomen or Trans women are not female so are not women so no need to call them women as it's factually not the truth the trans part of the word informs us of this

Cis is totally unnecessary as the vast majority of the population have no idea what you are talking about and totally unnecessary when you are taking about women as we all know women means

My mum (67) asked me what all this cis thing is about (surprised she doesn't know as she always listens to radio 4) I told her and she laughed and said what utter tosh and I agree

Apparently there was a similar movement in the 70's for men that felt they were women to decide what was actually right for woman

vesuvia · 28/04/2017 20:06

PhyllisNights wrote - "I do believe that trans women are women" and "I am speaking my truth, not yours. Please respect that it is my opinion. You and I cannot comprehend what it must feel like for some to be born male or female and feel that they belong to a gender that is completely opposite."

Is your truth "I cannot comprehend what it must feel like for some to be born male or female and feel that they belong to a gender that is completely opposite, therefore transwomen are women"?

If so, it seems illogical to me.

What does not being able to feel what a transgender person feels have to do with assessing and accepting which sex the person is?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 28/04/2017 20:12

It's irrelevant if you believe that trans women are women

They are not biological facts get in the way

You might believe they truly feel they are women and that is enough for you but that doesn't change the fact they are not and can never by female so can't be women

PhyllisNights · 28/04/2017 20:16

I guess I always felt like an outcast growing up and that people judged me from school through to Uni. When I made friends with people from the LGBT community, I could sympathise with them in some way.

That's not to say that I don't feel like I've been spoken down to in a way. I've been told that I'm white, straight and "rich". I have, however, felt that my gender has resulted in me being sexually assaulted and being disadvantaged in the workplace, which I don't think has ever been taken into consideration. Anytime I've tried to debate that, I've been told I'm "privileged".

Regardless of what has been said to me, I feel sympathy for other people. I always have done. I root for the underdog.

BigDeskBob · 28/04/2017 20:16

It also smacks of - well if the man says it, it must be true.

RogueBiscuit · 28/04/2017 20:19

Phyllis, I think you mentioned that you've spent a lot of time in the trans community. You also mentioned walking on eggshells and being told to check your priveledge. I think on another thread you got upset on your friends behalf by people stating facts.

You sound like you've been bullied by these friends. I cannot imagine being told to check my priveledge by a man, or listening endlessly to their rants. Or apologizing for using "offensive" language. I wonder how often your friends said similar things to men? Not often I bet.

PhyllisNights · 28/04/2017 20:24

I don't see the trans women as men, though. To be honest, the "check your privileged" has mostly come from a gay black man. He's always said things to me such as "don't be so white!" and "that's such white nonsense!".

I know it may seem ridiculous to some of you, but I always feel like I have to apologise and be mindful.

vesuvia · 28/04/2017 20:25

PhyllisNights wrote - "You and I cannot comprehend what it must feel like for some to be born male or female and feel that they belong to a gender that is completely opposite."

A mother cannot actually get inside the mind of the father of her child and feel the man's feelings, but I think she can confidently know beyond doubt that the father of her child is male.

Many male transgender people have used their sperm in penis-in-vagina sexual intercourse to become fathers - a win for biological imperative over "being reminded of maleness" triggering trauma.

RogueBiscuit · 28/04/2017 21:27

I know it may seem ridiculous to some of you, but I always feel like I have to apologise and be mindful

Why do you think you feel that way Phyllis? Because some of the things your friends are saying to you sound pretty offensive. Your black gay friend actually sounds horribly racist, and I'm pretty certain he'd be in big trouble if he said that to someone at work.

I'm wondering if you feel the way you do because you perceive these people as society's underdogs, or if you are doing what most women do when in the presence of aggressive men. Which is apologize, smile, nod and try to appease them.

PhyllisNights · 28/04/2017 21:35

If I even attempted to go down the... you can be racist against white peoples route, I'd honestly feel like I was on the path to being lynched.

Honestly, I feel like I was around a lot of rich white girls up until university. When I went to university, I mixed with a lot of different people. That seemed to widen after University. I just feel like I have to constantly apologise for being a white straight woman who possesses some wealth.

WankingMonkey · 28/04/2017 21:42

Regardless of what has been said to me, I feel sympathy for other people. I always have done. I root for the underdog.

I know it may seem ridiculous to some of you, but I always feel like I have to apologise and be mindful.

Thats your female socialization showing Wink

This is why the whole trans juggernaut has got as far as it has. Along with the fact that it only impacts females. If this affected males in any way it would have been stopped before the first idiot spoke the word 'demigender' or whatever the fuck it is. There is a link thats been posted on threads like this that I haven't saved, but its about females who were using the male loos at uni. the males were uncomfortable so it was stopped. None of this 'you must be tolerant' or 'they are going through a lot, try to understand' or even 'STFU you bigots'. just stopped.

CharlieSierra · 28/04/2017 21:56

If I even attempted to go down the... you can be racist against white peoples route, I'd honestly feel like I was on the path to being lynched

I wouldn't go there, but I would do some reading if necessary and hone my feminist arguments. Honestly he sounds a dick.

WhereYouLeftIt · 28/04/2017 23:03

"I guess I always felt like an outcast growing up"
Phyllis - everybody feels like that. Absolutely everybody. I know when I read this artlicl in last's Sunday's Observer, I felt a definite recognition of my younger self.

"That's not to say that I don't feel like I've been spoken down to in a way. I've been told that I'm white, straight and "rich". I have, however, felt that my gender has resulted in me being sexually assaulted and being disadvantaged in the workplace, which I don't think has ever been taken into consideration. Anytime I've tried to debate that, I've been told I'm "privileged"."
So let me get this straight. Your 'friends' - gay men, trans-identifying men - are gaslighting you into believing that they are the underdogs, when YOU are the one who's been sexually assaulted and sexually discriminated against? But they pooh-pooh that and tell you that you're privileged?

Phyllis love, what's wrong with that picture? These people are NOT your friends. They are a bunch of self-absorbed arseholes, who play on your generous nature. Frankly, you sound to me as if you are seriously lacking in self-esteem, and they are making bloody sure that you don't build any up, by constantly knocking you down. They are not your friends.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 28/04/2017 23:44

@WhereYouLeftIt is right, @PhyllisNights - you deserve to be treated SO much better! My heart goes out to you - I wish I could just reach out and give you a big hug!

Swipe left for the next trending thread