Cis labels

[sooperdooper]

I'm kind of new to reaching 'Peak Trans' and I had this thought...

So if, as the trans lobby keeps repeating 'trans women are women', why would they need to call biological women 'cis'?

If they really are female there would be no need for a distinction because by simply 'identifying' as female they would be

So they've made the distinction themselves by labelling biological women cis, doesn't that make the whole discussion about 'trans women being women' invalid by their own admission?

Sorry if this is totally obvious but I'm trying to work through my own thoughts on this

Bloody hell Prawn - that was a lucky escape! (Not for your phone, mind you...!)

Some gay men find women physically repulsive, hence the frequently misogynist undercurrent in gay culture (including drag). Despite the reputation that radical feminists have as being a load of man-haters, I've never seen anything as nasty written about men by women as I have seen written about women by men

Yes, it was pretty stupid. I have a friend who keeps a record of spectacularly dim things I've done. They didn't know about such things when I was a kid, but I think I'm quite dyspraxic. I once painted myself into a corner.

Speaking of the human shield, anything that's written from a TA you'll notice that it'll never be 'affects trans people' it'll always be trans and some other group - trans and women of colour, trans and gay, trans and poor etc.

They are experts at attaching themselves to other people's oppression.

Yes, I've noticed that, Choc. The one that probably annoys me the most is the frequent claims of a sky high murder rate for MTTs. This is almost entirely due to BME prostitutes, and the murder rate for female BME prostitutes is even higher.

The typical white middle aged fetishist is of no more risk of attack than any other white middle aged bloke, but they strap on BME and sex work to make themselves look threatened.

Despite the reputation that radical feminists have as being a load of man-haters, I've never seen anything as nasty written about men by women as I have seen written about women by men

This is so true Oleanna and it's a sign of how deep the rot goes in society at large that supposedly being a "man-hating feminist" is a sneering put-down while being a misogynist isn't really negative at all. Because misogyny isn't even really acknowledged as a thing. Because, pfft, women.

In a similar way, women have long been depicted as irrational, unreasonable, in thrall to our hormones and reproductive cycles and therefore not to be trusted with leadership - because men with their testosterone are SO rational and reasonable and such natural leaders, not starting wars or committing other acts of great violence and stupidity on a regular basis... oh wait...

Sorry, bit of a tangent into general feminist stuff there - but then I do think the still vastly inferior status of women is at the root of all this transactivist MRA shit. They would never have made the gains they have or received such widespread support without their inherent male privilege.

Great point Choc and Prawn. The truth about the murder stats and the stats for female BME prostitutes is one of the things we need to get out there to counter the misinformation.

In a similar way, women have long been depicted as irrational, unreasonable, in thrall to our hormones and reproductive cycles and therefore not to be trusted with leadership - because men with their testosterone are SO rational and reasonable and such natural leaders, not starting wars or committing other acts of great violence and stupidity on a regular basis...

I've mentioned it before on here, but a perfect example of this is the Bear Grylls island thingummy - the USA men-only version. They were great at getting fire going, hunting something for dinner etc, but falling apart with the emotional side of it. So much willy-waving getting in the way of getting things done, and those struggling emotionally just became arseholes/violent/wandered off leaving group worried/etc. One guy cries and gets angry telling them to turn the cameras off so his kids don't see him "like this". He's exhausted, and lying on the ground crying but starts threatening the others with a hunting knife when they get near. It was quite interesting how the more "modern" (for want of a better word) men were more thoughtful and emotionally literate and able to cope and help diffuse these situations. I suppose in daily life these men hae women to do that for them.

If there was one thing I wish I could see more of it's comments correcting the (often deliberate) mistaken use of "gender" when "sex" would be correct.

I suppose this mistaken usage started from prudery about the word "sex" but has now been hijacked in this sense of nothing must be definite, especially not words and meanings.

Having written that, it occurs to me that definitions are in effect boundaries and there are plenty of people out there who hate boundaries and believe they are there to be transgressed.

Amen to that, nauticant. More sex, less prudishness, if that's a word.

Sex sex sex

Toilets are divided according to sex.
Some schools are single sex.
The suffragettes fought so they their sex would no longer be used against them.

I am very deliberately - and consciously - using sex now where I previously would have probably have said gender. So 'the children are segregated by sex for PE', 'sexual equality', etc. It feels weirdly self-conscious but no one has commented that I mean gender so far

Totally agree nauticant, user1487175389 and JigglyTuff.

Language is vital. And the distinction between sex and gender has never been more so.

I'm not sure exactly when this word 'gender' instead of 'sex' happened. I've never used it, even before all this stuff kicked off, and I thought it was a bit twee when I started to see it. You see it on here all the time, 'guess the gender'. It's sex.