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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Do you think some of the driver for "a woman is anyone who says they are a woman" is to do with bad science teaching in the US?

369 replies

QuentinSummers · 07/04/2017 11:26

Just reading this thread on Reddit and loads of the posts are very scientifically naive. I can't decide if posters are being disingenuous or are just very uneducated about basic science.
It got me wondering whether the American thing of teaching creationism as equally valid a theory as evolution has generally undermined science and critical thinking.

OP posts:
Datun · 07/04/2017 15:38

SSR24479

If you are a transman, why do you care? How does it impact on you that women want to keep men out of their bathrooms? You don't want to access men's bathrooms, you want your own. What does it matter to you?

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 15:38

To be fair SSR, you did say women victimise themselves . That's the very definition of victim blaming.

But that is the argument people use in order to keep trans women out of women's restrooms. That's literally it.

IAmAmy · 07/04/2017 15:40

The argument is they're women's spaces. For women. It doesn't need further justification. Your comment about "victimising themselves" said a lot about your attitudes and lack of concern for women who've suffered male violence or indeed those of us who fear it.

VestalVirgin · 07/04/2017 15:40

All trans lobbying in this country is focussed on that goal. That there should be no spaces for biological women. That all current exemptions should be removed.

Indeed. That's the only reason why it has gained so much traction.

It took homosexuals ages to get even something resembling equal rights ("gay marriage" is still different from marriage in many countries), but suddenly, this tiny, allegedly oppressed minority gets to take away the rights of half of the population?

Not bloody likely.

It is men taking away women's rights. That's how it is possible. Men taking away women's rights has always happened fast. Oppressors increasing their oppression of the oppressed by 200% because economy isn't as good anymore, and they have decided to not be generous anymore? Happens.

Social progress happening in the course of what? 5, perhaps 10 years? When no one previously had ever heard of the whole gendernonsense? Ridiculous.

It is patriarchy in action, plain and simple.

PoochSmooch · 07/04/2017 15:40

No, you didn't hurt my feelings, you silly sausage. I was correcting your mistake. It is a fact that I am a woman. You were wrong.

Stop me if any of this is too difficult.

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 15:41

If you are a transman, why do you care? How does it impact on you that women want to keep men out of their bathrooms? You don't want to access men's bathrooms, you want your own. What does it matter to you?

There you go twisting my words Hmm I'd love to use a men's bathroom, but I'm not delusional, so I know separate bathrooms are most realistic at this point.

Why do you guys never fight for FtM's usage of men's restrooms? It's dangerous, no?

Shouldn't you be so strongly onboard with separate bathrooms as you are with trans women staying out of women's spaces? Or does it only matter when it effects you?

venusinscorpio · 07/04/2017 15:42

No it isn't. How simplistic an explanation do you require? Why are you unable to grasp simple concepts? The idea of women being victims of male oppression is the basis of feminism. It does not make women responsible for their own oppression. They suffer it, they do not cause it. It is done to them whether they reject the ideas or not.

Datun · 07/04/2017 15:42

But that is the argument people use in order to keep trans women out of women's restrooms. That's literally it.

Oh sweetie, it really isn't. 98% of sexual crime is committed by men against women. It's a perfectly rational fear. This 98% isn't committed by women against themselves.

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 15:43

So why is it that you want trans women out of women's bathrooms if it's not because of fear?

IAmAmy · 07/04/2017 15:43

The lack of concern for male violence against women, and the fear of it, this poster is showing says a lot about them.

Datun · 07/04/2017 15:46

Why do you guys never fight for FtM's usage of men's restrooms? It's dangerous, no?

So far I haven't noticed any men objecting to transmen using their bathrooms?

Why do you think that is SSR?

Could it possibly be because they do not consider you a threat? And why do you think that is?

VestalVirgin · 07/04/2017 15:47

The lack of concern for male violence against women, and the fear of it, this poster is showing says a lot about them.

Yes. For example that they are most likely male.

Can we please ignore the troll? It is getting repetitive.

The original topic was that ignorance of biological facts might be the driver of the trans nonsense. I would like to think that accurate, but have met quite a lot very clever women who still agreed with the transwacktivism.

I think it is perhaps more a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. They know those males might get violent if they oppose them, and, worse, they don't know how many women might turn against them.

What we have here is clearly a case of irrational behaviour, but I don't think it is due to lack of knowledge. (Though that could be involved with regard to children who say they want to be transed - those children most probably have no idea what surgery can, and cannot do.)

Datun · 07/04/2017 15:48

I said:

"98% of sexual crime is committed by men against women. It's a perfectly rational fear."

You respond with

So why is it that you want trans women out of women's bathrooms if it's not because of fear?

Something tells me you're not really reading this properly.

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 15:49

*So far I haven't noticed any men objecting to transmen using their bathrooms?

Why do you think that is SSR?

Could it possibly be because they do not consider you a threat? And why do you think that is?*

Why would I be the threat? More like the target, why is nobody speaking about how much danger I'm in? FtM's get shit in the bathroom too.

We go into a men's room, get beat up. "What's that freak doing in here?"

We go into a women's room, get screamed at and pushed out.
"Why is that boy in here? Pervert!"

Datun · 07/04/2017 15:50

I think it is perhaps more a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

There is something to that. Because it's very hard to understand otherwise.

GahBuggerit · 07/04/2017 15:50

Why won't you use a men's toilet?

Datun · 07/04/2017 15:52

SSR24479

I agree with pooch here. I think we have made it clear where we all stand. Maybe take your foot off the gas for a bit.

GahBuggerit · 07/04/2017 15:52

So you feel threatened in a men's toilet? You'd worry for your safety?

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 15:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

VestalVirgin · 07/04/2017 15:57

Hmm, probably a combination of societal grooming to centre men and prioritize men in everything, combined with an excuse to centre men even in feminism, and the pressure (here Stockholm Syndrome comes in) to conform to the most powerful opinion.

PoochSmooch · 07/04/2017 16:00

Nice bit of ageism and sexism there. Let's leave that right there, shall we?

We go into a men's room, get beat up

so YOUR fear of men is legitimate, but women's fear of men is self-victimisation? So you don't pass for male in the men's toilet, but women immediately read you as male?

Mmmm. Sure.

OlennasWimple · 07/04/2017 16:00

Who is doing the beating up? Men.

Who is demanding access to women's spaces? Men

UncontrolledImmigrant · 07/04/2017 16:00

I get it, you're all housewives that don't get out much but maybe you should go to karate classes with your kids to sort out your menopausal emotions.

why bother arguing with us if we are just stupid menopausal housewives? If we are truly of no consequence how could our agreement that anyone who says they are is a woman be necessary? Why must we be forced to collude in a delusion?

Careful love, your slip is showing

Datun · 07/04/2017 16:02

VestalVirgin

Why do they keep thinking it though? What's their gain?

They must frequently clear hear arguments to the contrary, but still carry on regardless.

SSR24479 · 07/04/2017 16:04

*so YOUR fear of men is legitimate, but women's fear of men is self-victimisation? So you don't pass for male in the men's toilet, but women immediately read you as male?

Mmmm. Sure.*

I do pass for the men's toilet, but they still see me as a little bitch, which I can't be bothered with.

My words about women's victimisation was a very valid point about the hypocrisy of TERF's.