Paris Lees article on toilets in Guardian today

[OlennasWimple]

Beware: reading this article may be bad for your blood pressure...

Squee I've been unfortunate enough to see a naked picture of that "Hindu" tw that I can never unsee. He is a very scary and unpleasant person.

Sorry, she, I accept I may get deleted now 😔

I'm part of an online makeup/fashion/general "girly" stuff group (yeah, bad feminist I know!) and it seems to be like catnip to what I am fairly sure are AGP TW seeking validation. It's not an exclusively female group, and there are guys on it which I don't mind in the slightest (who post some amazing make up, genuinely talented), but I also keep spotting older very masculine looking 'women' who seem to be parodying younger females and going for sort of hyper-sexualised looks - imagine a 50 year old dressed like an 18 year old about to go clubbing.

It makes me uncomfortable because it feels exactly like "womanhood as a costume" - you don't have to like makeup to be a woman, or be a woman to like makeup, but it's like some sort of pastiche of what they think a woman is.

Statistically I think we might be in the same online group, and I feel exactly the same way. I also notice a huge number of, often very young, women who rush to tell them how amazing they look, thereby giving them the validation they clearly crave. And all the 'you go, girl' and 'looking great, lady' comments, often from other transwomen.

I'm glad it's not just me, I genuinely couldn't give a monkeys about guys being members, but this is different somehow.

Nodding along furiously to your posts, Prawn.

Just as an aside, I saw this on Reddit and it shows The Life Of Brian is still relevant today.

I'm also on there Statistically - I don't know how much longer though as it's getting absurd. If a woman of a similar age and build dressed up in teenage clothes from New Look they'd be gently steered away from such bad clothing choices, but stick a builder with massive tattoos in a girlish dress up and it's all "you're so brave".

There was recently a bloke on with a bad wig, bright orange foundation. I (being nice, I thought) advised that he might want to look at a more natural foundation colour and youtube videos on how to apply it properly (didn't even start on the dreadful blue eyeshadow and comedy red lipstick) and got a warning that it was a supportive community. So apparently that means lying to people rather than actually trying to help...

It feels like they have this vision of what being a woman means that bears no resemblance to our actual lived experiences.

It's like teenage boys who think that a teenage girls sleepover consists of having pillow fights in their underwear

It's exactly that treacle. Performing a bizarre interpretation of "femininity" which is all about clothes and hair and make up and girlish mannerisms.

Exactly, it's a fetish.

There is no way to be a woman except to be one.

If white people blacked up and started singing "mammy" because they "felt black" they would be (rightly) slated. How is this different?

Ok I've been nosey as i'e been awakened to the trans debate and I have had a look on Reddit and trans on line groups - also some Twitter and FB profiles. The amount of deluded narcissitic self obsession is pretty extreme. The women I know, just don't act like this - posting endless attention seeking selfies.

Being nosey teaches you some unforgettable things about the trans community. Some sights require eye bleach. I don't think any woman who investigates trans support sites like Reddit asktransgender can continue thinking that transwomen "just wanna pee". Rampant fetishism and masturbatory fantasy about intruding into women's spaces. The more women witness this the better.

I think the point about validation is very important, because if more women told the truth to the transwomen they know i.e. no, you don't pass, then I can't help thinking that the whole thing would be less popular. And I think I also used to be in the same makeup/hair group but it must have been before there were any transwomen in it. Sad if it's been taken over

You're right Hermione. Rachel Dolezal was ridiculed and universally slated for faking "blackness". It isn't any different, and yet...

I don't think either of the transwomen I know would ask if they passed. One because she knows she doesn't but transition has helped her suicidal GID, the other because that person knows I'd say no. I keep my opinion to myself but if asked directly I'd give an honest answer.

It is strange in that whilst there's a distinct be nice tone, if someone asks opinions on e.g. a dress that shows their stomach badly they will be gently advised on other things to try. But apparently we can't do that to TW

I don't get why it's 'brave' to put on a dress? It implies that there's something shameful about being female.

(Not that wearing a dress makes you female!)

I think it can be brave to challenge gender norms, whether that's by shaving your head if female, or wearing a dress if male. I always feel slightly uncomfortable when I get new glasses or a very different hair cut, so if I were a 6' man going out in a dress for the first time, yes, I would imagine it takes courage.

Over on Reddit, who doesn't get aroused putting on their bra, hey?

It's because becoming a woman is perceived as a step down for a man, Twogoats. That's what's brave about it. Transmen don't get praised because they up their status.

Sick as fuck, imo. And of course if women can up their status just by transitioning then the oppression of women stops being a political issue that can be named. If we don't like it we can just identify our way out of it. Identity politics entirely eradicates class analysis.

I agree that challenging gender norms can be a type of brave - whether that's a woman refusing to conform to expected female dress codes, or having a shaved type haircut, or choosing to go in to a male dominated career like becoming a miner or mechanic or something, or a man wearing a dress or having long swishy hair or choosing to work in childcare.

But I don't think it's brave to say that you are the opposite sex.

oleannas well, that was an educating little foray

They are absolutely convinced that it's normal to find putting your clothes on sexually astounding. How deluded can you be.

According to the users you can get and maintain erections while on HRT as well, so that clears that one up.

No, I don't want to share intimate space with men who can get erections and are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as women and dressing as women. If that makes me a bigot I will happily wear the badge

Fucking Nora. Sure, many women will wear particular lingerie to try and turn on the man - or woman- in their life. When doing so they might, if confident, think hmmmm I look good. But it's not arousing. The act of putting on clothes in itself is not arousing. Surely being sexually aroused by your own appearance is just raging narcissism

Oh but it's not autogynephilia. Absolutely not. It's being your true self. And imagining yourself having sex as your preferred gender. Not weird, no sireeee.

It's the gaslighting I can't stand. So some men have autogynephilia, that's absolutely fine, I don't judge them for it. But we're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist or we're bigots. Fuck that.

No, not autogynephilia. Totally normal to find "being your true, female self" incredibly erotic. Not a fetish. Nope.