Paris Lees article on toilets in Guardian today

[OlennasWimple]

Beware: reading this article may be bad for your blood pressure...

Yes I've often been deleted and was put into pre-mod after the Cologne debacle -just thought they'd loosened up a bit lately. Maybe not. Often they zap comments without even leaving a notification so you can't tell how the debate is going. I think with this one it must be overwhelmingly unsympathetic to the bullshit and they can't delete everyone.

He really hates women, doesn't he?

He has just tweeted;
'It's time for some 'balance' in this 'transgender debate' so let's allow trans people to shout over everyone else uninterrupted for 50 years'

and

Trans people suffer horrific abuse, violence & murder. But let's talk about people's made-up fears about us instead!

And Mumsnet and the Guardian are giving this misogynist nightmare a voice. It's terrifying.

That's grim Mrsglitterpants

Hermione - never mind the leftie men, I don't know how I feel about the impact on Muslim women, because I have a fundamental problem with the idea that a woman should have to have her hair covered at all times in the presence of a non-family male. I don't want that ideology to be our saviour in this fight! I do agree with Prawn that the impact will be that women from conservative families (not only, but including Muslims) will be restricted in their movements outside the house, girls will be increasingly home schooled - and again women's gains in recent decades will be rolled back.

Agreed, Olenna

I spent several happy decades, puttering along, noticing more women in public life, more women in positions of authority etc etc and thought, good stuff, things are trotting along in the right direction. Then I started to observe that if it comes down to a straight choice between a male minority and women, as with the Cologne business, as with this, women are supposed to lie back and think of other people's needs and wants first.

In other words, return to being quiet and 'good' and putting up and shutting up. It's as if women fight for their rights, and eventually get them, but can't rely on hanging onto to them.

It's depressing.

He's some arsehole, that's for sure. I'm happy for people to see his true woman-hating colours though.

Paris Lees once again telling women how we should think and feel

We do but Paris doesn't want to listen why should Paris listen male privilege allows you not to bother listening to women's concerns as they don't impact you

We know that trans people struggle with prejudice and many with their own personal feelings that isn't going to change with women being silenced

There are never enough female toilets anywhere! Are all the shopping centres, cinemas etc all over the place now expected to provide non gender marked toilets?
Bloody hell! I am new to this topic, but have found reading others comments very interesting.

Interesting article in the new statesman here - www.newstatesman.com/2016/11/whats-missing-transgender-debate-any-discussion-male-violence

paris lees is incredible. There is a video of "her" on "Brexit Night" trying to silence david starkey by dismissing his opinion as irrelevant since he is a "white middle aged man" (an presumably not an edgy intellectual like Paris). How i longed for him to say "you mean, the same as you then Paris ?"

Will i get in trouble for that ?

Not with me flaxen

I hate the idea of communal toilets. Those thin papier mâché wall that don't reach the ground or the ceiling and then an awkward foyer for hand washing with the boss.

The safest and least embarrassing loos I know are in a self-contained room, including toilet, wash basin, towels and bins, full walls and a lockable door that open without an ante room to a populated corridor. Mixed sex is an added bonus, preventing endless female queues and empty men's cubicles.

TBF girl PL isn't middle-aged (neither is Starkey, mind...)...

Paris Lees has said she's a lot older than people think.

(and isn't dismissing someone for the colour of their skin and their age, racist and ageist?)

David Starkey is in his 70s. I don't know if our concept of middle age has become unfeasibly stretched or if it doesn't look good to dismiss someone for being elderly because that's a group generally seen as marginalised. (Not that Starkey is marginalised in any way that I can see.)

Datun I googled Paris lees' age but there doesn't seem to be any information. Someone must know though 🤔

Let's not give Paris anymore Google hits. His ego is big enough!

PL was 25 in Oct 2013 according this BBC article, so 28 now

Oh, that's a lot younger than I had thought. I would have said 30s.

Ha yes didn't think of that 😬

I would have said about 36 maybe? Obviously it's harder to find this information if someone has changed their name.

I think she likes to present as about 19, hence the comment about her being older then she looks.

Putting a lot of slap on often makes people look a lot older than they are.

I'm not meaning this to be rude, but I thought she was older than that!

I'm shocked.

Read the comments and its great that more people are starring to see through the bullshit, but the repetitive crap from male posters saying how they are not bothered at all was starting to boil my piss. Likewise the eejits that think this is just about toilets and who make it all about them.
Do none of these women remember being a twelve year old girl and scared if big hairy men and having to navigate menstruation which is usually unpredictable at first?
So many people just lack imagination and cannot empathise outside their own experience.
As a Muslim woman myself I am trying to raise this issue on Muslim women's Facebook groups, but the problem is most don't realise what's actually going on and what the legal issues are and are shocked and disbelieving when I tell them. I put up so many links that none thought it was important to read, but I shall continue to try.

We already have an issue with trans women. Or men pretending to be female trying to join female only groups and make friends with sisters they find attractive and then send disgusting or sexual comments to them. They usually get outed quickly and sisters will advise to block or ubfriend them.
I have to say one if the things I love about being a Muslim woman is that in most mosques our female only places are protected, and this is handy if you want somewhere to breast feed, or for hijab wearing sisters to sit and chill and just to be around other women only in a safe space is nice. In some of the stricter mosques I go to, its fine for a woman to walk through the men's part if she warns them first, to go to the office or something, but men are only allowed in the women's part with good reason and usually warn over the tannoy first or knock and wait for permission, and any dodgy men trying to catch a peak would be thrown out.

I agree with the posts that this is just another type of mysoginy from the trans women, I don't think they have any idea what it is to be a real woman (,I can't stand the term cis) and I don't think they even care.