Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

[Weneedarevolution]

My DS is doing A levels. In geography they have been put in a group of boys and girls - 5 students I think. They have to complete a project. The girls have organised and allocated th work, my DS has minimal work to do. He is GOOD at geography his input would help the girls. He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped but they organised it and he just agreed. I really believe if the girls asked he and his friends would do the work to a high standard.

This has happened through out his school career, he and his friends almost expect it now.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

I don't know how you'll be able to persuade him tbh if he doesn't care how he's perceived by his classmates and the teacher, or indeed you! Is he selfish in other areas of his life?

"the self appointed organiser don't you have some responsibility to then follow through and do the difficult task of getting people to work?"

No, not in a group of "equals" - no one is the boss here.

Fairness is logical. He likes equations - he should be doing 20% of the work.

I am trying to help him grow into a reasonable man by challenging the assumption's he and his peer group have.

Well you could start by changing your attitude from asking why the girls "let" the boys take the piss and start asking why the boys take the piss. Stop making girls responsible for your son's behaviour.

Maybe lots of us aren't feeling to kindly towards males who are happy to exploit females right now.

You posted in Feminist Chat, you must have know you/your DSwere going to get short shrift.

I find it interesting that the whole thing has been framed as girls v boys. It isn't necessary for the discussion. "The other group members" would have done surely?

RiverTam

"You've clarified the issue, though - this is your attitude shining through and through. You think that girls taking control are bossy. Dear god."

I apologise for using the word, it was unhelpful. I used it as shorthand as a pp had used it. I am aware of the negative connotations and would have commented if it had used by DS I'm sure.

Not read whole thread but collaboration and capacity building is a great skill. And he will get on better in any relationship if he is willing to roll up his sleeves and do his fair share. All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing. Ask him why he is afraid to offer to do his fair share? Does he want to live in an unjust world? It won't benefit him in the long run emotionally.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped

You see this every day on here regarding household chores/childcare from women.

It doesn't make him a better person that he's happy to shirk unless he's specifically asked/nagged into doing what is fair.

But it's helpful to see a live example of how boys are being raised to become these men who leave their wives and partners so stressed, unsupported and upset.

You're presenting it very dispassionately . How are you helping him and his peers to do things differently?

"lazy shite with no group ethic" = a little more than short shrift.

BTW DS was gutted by Trumps win mainly as he is concered about the impact on a women's right to choose.

I posed it as a boy vs girl question because after talking to his friends I think it is. The boys just don't see why the girls haven't just said "do some more bloody work". In our house if he doesn't do his jobs he's told. So he does the job, toilet cleaning included.

Surely empowering women is about encouraging them to challenge weak/lazy/stupid male behaviour. I would be more than happy if the teacher helped me by having a go at him, and all his friends.

It feels like I am challenging him but the teacher and both sexes in the group are all happy with status quo.

Surely empowering women is about encouraging them to challenge weak/lazy/stupid male behaviour.

You're still putting the responsibility for the shortcomings of men onto women to resolve.

Do you simply not see why girls should not have to endlessly, repeatedly chivvy boys, and later men, along to do anything? Obviously not as you do this yourself.

If I were you and he didn't repeatedly do his chores without being asked there would be consequences, no phone, wifi disconnected, whatever. He knows what his chores are.

You are the one teaching him this! Why? Why do you put up with it?

Buffy and that's the crux isn't it. Theoretically he is a feminist but is he enough of a feminist to work against his own self interest? At 17 it would seem not.

Gertrude I am poking fun at them, challenging them and pointing out that they are 'oppressors' to make them uncomfortable. I kind of wish some of the girls in their class were helping me.

I'm assuming he wants to go to university?

I'd tell him to get his act together and be proactive about his group work now then, him slacking off and then blaming other people for his shitty behaviour will not go down well.

". In our house if he doesn't do his jobs he's told. So he does the job, toilet cleaning included."

That's a parent child thing. In a sense, you and your DH are the bosses of the house and he is assigned tasks by you.

The girls are not the bosses of the group; they are equals.

I know there's a lot of posts here but you haven't responded to mine about fairness (regardless of sex)

Surely empowering women is about encouraging them to challenge weak/lazy/stupid male behaviour. I would be more than happy if the teacher helped me by having a go at him, and all his friends.

Hang on so do you want the girls to hold the responsibility for challenging the boys or do you want the teacher to do it? It's not the same things and the fact you have mentioned teachers suggests you think the girls are on par with the teacher wrt whose responsibility it is to challenge these boys' attitudes. They aren't. The girls are pupils, they are entitled to the same relationship with the teacher as ten boys are. They aren't the teacher's assistant there to chivvy along the boys and only go to teacher if they can't!

You could give him consequences for not pulling his weight in the group, of course,

The question is not if the girls/teacher are happy with the status quo, it is whether your DS is! If he is not, then he should bring it up. Simple.

On the other hand, if he is happy, and the girls are happy, maybe they have actually exercised some leadership and divided up the tasks so their learning can benefit.

Why should the girls help you? Now you think it's girls' responsibility to help the parents of boys parent them?

Anything else you want to dump on to girls?

RiverTam yes I do have to ask him to do things and then remind him. If he doesn't do things there are consequences, but he usually does whatever it is when asked. He mostly does not need reminding.

If I, as his mother, don't tell him what to do and how to behave then who will?

Has your son no work ethic?

Can't imagine where he gets his attitude from