Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

[Weneedarevolution]

My DS is doing A levels. In geography they have been put in a group of boys and girls - 5 students I think. They have to complete a project. The girls have organised and allocated th work, my DS has minimal work to do. He is GOOD at geography his input would help the girls. He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped but they organised it and he just agreed. I really believe if the girls asked he and his friends would do the work to a high standard.

This has happened through out his school career, he and his friends almost expect it now.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

Does your son understand the concept of society ?

I don't particularly want to pay taxes but I accept that there's a bigger picture and that it's the right thing to do.

I mean generally in group work there are various unspoken dynamics by which it's decided who will organise and who will do what. And generally it's driven by a wish to co-operate and strengthen friendships, as much as by the actual need to get the work done. There are a whole lot of social dynamics underlying who does what. Obviously in some groups regardless of gender, it doesn't work so well, and someone is lazy, or feels left out or whatever.

But if consistently through their school lives the boys and girls are not really collaborating, this suggests to me they don't see each other as socially important, or at any rate not as equals who share friendships and ideas and tasks with each other. That would worry me a lot.

I would ask him how it came to be that the girls were the organisers? Was it because the boys left a pregnant pause so the girls would jump in and start organising because tactically that was always how it worked in the past? Because generally unless you are traibed as a people manager, the organisers do tend to get more work because they feel bad asking too much of others.

If my suggestion of him asking nicely to do his fair share of the work is "tosh" according to you then what do you suggest? Your son is sitting back and benefitting from the girls doing the right thing. You claim your son is so much more high achieving than these girls so why doesn't he do what he's supposed to, help out and contribute? Oh and thanks for being rude when I was giving a perfectly fair suggestion.

Oh here we go, the usual sexist attitudes. Your son is referring to girls as being "bossy" for doing the work they're asked to, they'd never refer to boys like that. Why not call him out on his sexist attitudes?

Have you seriously just asked why the girls let the boys do this and then go on to say that your son knows he could/should do the work but doesn't bother? Seriously?

Buffy this is all via DS and he is a little defensive as, despite what people assume, I am giving him a hard time about this.

The girls 'bossily' organised the task and allocated responsibilities. They IMO 'let the boys get away with' doing little by not giving them more work. He was happy to let them do this as it was to his benefit.

When I suggest he asks for extra work he looks at me like I've lost my mind.

I would counter with asking him why does he need to know why they did it. He surely knows it's wrong and an unbalanced allocation of the work. So why didn't he insist on doing more or point out to his teacher that he was only doing a small bit of the work.

The girls are not responsible for your son's input. He is, he is choosing to do fuck all.

Firstly tell him to stop referring to girls as being "bossy" for doing something a boy such as your son would be called "decisive" or "a leader" for doing, Christ.

If he claims to be a feminist have a discussion with him about the concept of "bossy" and how it's nearly always used negatively towards women. Men behaving the same way would be described in positive terms. The girls were proactive, organised and enthusiastic. It looks like they made a correct assessment of your son's attitude to work and managed the risk by allocating him a small part of the work.

Well, you slap him down sharply for using the word bossy, you assure him there is nothing feminist about this attitude and you point out that he isn't being slightly self centred, he is being hugely egotistical and lazy.

In fact, there is not a single positive word I could find to describe his behaviour. he is being absolutely anti-social. And as such he'll find himself on his own in short order, as no-one wants to be friends with someone so monumentally selfish.

I don't recall 'bossy' being the word used by DS, I was responding to a pp. I am aware 'bossy' is not a good word to use. I used it in quotes to show I was aware it was an issue. It was a short cut - I apologise for confusing the issue.

You've clarified the issue, though - this is your attitude shining through and through. You think that girls taking control are bossy. Dear god.

He just can't get his head around why the girls choose to allocate him a small amount of easy work. It is illogical.

Maybe because they knew he was a lazy bum who wouldn't put any effort into anything that didn't directly benefit him.

Have you tried addressing it along the lines of fairness?

All five people should be sharing the work fairly. That's not happening.

You are contradicting yourself op. You say he is smarter and doesn't need to revise, but the girls are not as smart and need the project to revise. Why would you have a problem with with them doing the work to get their grades up?

I have four teens here. In all curcumstances, the girls find it much harder to work in mixed sex groups, because the boys shirk their responsibilities, turn up late or not at all to group sessions, and put in the minimal effort. The boys sit back and let the girls do all the work. When the girls have the temerity to complain (either to the boys themselves or to the teachers) they get a shrug or some bollocks about learning to get along with people as it will be beneficial in the real world.
By 16, the girls have all learned through experience that frankly it is far easier to just do the fucking work yourself instead of trying to get a boy to do it. If there us nothing in it personally for the boy, they just don't do the work. I have a gifted boy here too. It doesn't mean a thing. Being gifted doesn't mean you aren't a lazy shite with no group ethics. Not mutually exclusive.

I think some of these replies are unfair.

Is the OP's son supposed to argue with the girls about the division of labour? Maybe he offered gently and has no inclination to insist he does more? My son is 15 and he is under the misguided notion that arguing with a girl will be seen as sexist or bullying unlike arguing with a boy of the same age. He'd rather die than ask a teacher to intervene in this kind of quandry and would prefer to shut up and do the work as quickly as he could.

I do wonder if it's situation like this that contributes to girls doing better than boys academically. Does anyone benefit from group work apart from the teacher who gets less marking? Group work is a good skill to have for the world of work but in my experience, the bossy ones will always try to dominate while the quiet ones clam up and do what they are told by the others. My kids' role in groups has been the same from Reception. (they are now teens)

Again, in many group projects, I could have let myself be ignored, but I forced myself forward.

Your son could, and should have done the same - where was he when 'the girls' were allocating tasks? Why wasn't he involving himself in the conversation - taking tasks, volunteering rather than sitting back and waiting to be allocated?

How do we know that it wasn't a group discussion that he couldn't be bothered to get involved with, so they allocated tasks according to involvement? Sounds pretty damn sensible to me if that's what they did!

And interestingly, if you put a group of boys together they do work. It's only when you put them in a group with girls that they lean back and admire the scenery.

He really should watch himself. There will come a time when his group mates won't carry him and they won't warn him either that they are leaving his name off the project and explaining to the teacher/tutor why. Plus he's going to flounder the first time he finds himself actually having to direct himself For a project because everyone else has his attitude of "someone else will do it".

Maybe in a group with girls they know they are superior and so have nothing to prove? And in an all male group all their testosterone gets put under threat?

Penhacked "the organisers do tend to get more work because they feel bad asking too much of others."

I think that is a good summary. The girls were keen to be seen to be doing a good job and jumped in. I think (really don't know for sure) they made the mistake lots of women (people?) make of not liking to ask. My DS has certainly exploited this. However, as the self appointed organiser don't you have some responsibility to then follow through and do the difficult task of getting people to work?

I am well aware this is not DS's finest hour, to put it mildly. However, queuing up to insult him is not helping. Should we only report our DC's success'?
I am trying to help him grow into a reasonable man by challenging the assumption's he and his peer group have. Being insulted will make me leave, make no difference to my DS and make the whole thread nothing but an exercise in self righteousness.