Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

[Weneedarevolution]

My DS is doing A levels. In geography they have been put in a group of boys and girls - 5 students I think. They have to complete a project. The girls have organised and allocated th work, my DS has minimal work to do. He is GOOD at geography his input would help the girls. He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped but they organised it and he just agreed. I really believe if the girls asked he and his friends would do the work to a high standard.

This has happened through out his school career, he and his friends almost expect it now.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

Have you spoken to your ds about what life is like when you leave school?

Sure you may be able to coast along, but you won't get any of the promotions or pay rises without putting the effort in.

Oh my word, stop blaming girls for your son not doing the work. If his grades are apparently so much better then why doesn't he help by giving his input? You're blaming girls who are the same age at the same school as your son for him and the other boys not bothering to work.

He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

And you still have to wonder whether the girls are to blame?

Girls tend to do better in coursework than boys, because girls tend not to be lazy loafers.

The girls may not have asked more of your DS because they have learned the hard way from years of group work and have given up trying.

Your DS is a lazy loafer and shouldn't need a bunch of girls to motivate him to do more than the minimum.

Well my DS sees an equal partnership at home, he knows if his dad tries to not do his share he will be vigorously challenged.

I am not making excuses, I'm framing an argument to use against him.

I stated my DS is good at geography yet posters assume the girls are getting better grades. He is predicted an A, the girls (I think) are C/D ish. I suspect the teacher put them together so they can learn from him.

I pity the woman who ends up married to him, if he carries on like this.

Why should he be proactive? Because he's not a lazy arse who's happy to skive off the back of other people's work?

Tell him to stop being so fucking lazy, and pull his pathetic finger out and be active. Right now he sounds like a passenger, a waste of space, contributing nothing, take credit that isn't his. All pretty unpleasant things to be, I would have thought.

So if he's better, if he can help them they why on earth isn't he? Because he sees no benefit to him?

He may be academically smarter but he doesn't sound very intelligent. Or nice.

"posters assume the girls are getting better grades."

I said maybe. I didn't assume.

First you said your son and the other boys benefit from the girls' doing all the work, now the silly struggling girls are in his group to benefit from him as he's coasting along to an A? Curious.

" He will not really benefit from doing the work the girls may well benefit greatly."

Maybe they expect him to say that and therefore do nothing. Has he said that sort of thing before?

IAmAmy - No, it's blaming the person who has willingly (and often forcefully) taken on the role regardless of their sex. If someone chooses to take on the role of supervisor and divides up the tasks then that's their look out.

Wow loads of assumptions about me and him.

He is not lazy, but he can see no logical benefit of asking for extra work when he does not need it. If the work was being assessed he would not leave it to others.

I am not blaming anyone I am posing a question. The responses will help me frame an argument. Sadly suggesting he should - politely ask for more work because its the nice thing to do - is not going work I think.

We had group projects at bloody degree level. I was one of 3 women in a 100 student course, so obviously, worked with the men.

I was either entirely ignored, and had to force my way into the project, or, for my final year project, I organised, wrote all the code, and he barely bothered to do anything. I produced 2 inches thick code and documentation, plus demo software he turned up with an un-working piece of circuitry and a few notes - despite, in other ways, being just as good a student if you looked at his grades.

What he wasn't used to was having to proactively work for himself, unlike me, who was used to working and pushing myself forward to get anywhere.

You're doing your son no favours by excusing this behaviour.

It's a total cop out. Revision is always helpful. He can consolidate his knowledge by explaining it to others. Why doesn't he want to show off what he knows? Why doesn't he want to just muck in and get involved? He sounds arrogant and unpleasant (he may not be, but that's how what you've described is coming across), and I would be very disappointed.

So he only bothers to work when it's an assessment? But a task has still been set for this group? And he's only interested in himself so he doesn't see any point in putting himself forward to do any work, he's just passively waiting to be asked? Have I got that right?

Nope, still doesn't make him sound any better. The relationships board is full of women bemoaning men with exactly this attitude.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks I never see boys being blamed for this kind of thing, with boys it's "leadership qualities" and "isn't it impressive how he takes charge". Boys doing what these girls are would probably be praised for getting work done and showing such great potential. Girls are, of course, criticised for it and then blamed for boys failing to do their share.

You're doing your son no favours by excusing this behaviour.

I am not excusing his behaviour ffs. I am explaining his arguments so you can help me frame an argument.

So far I have been told he needs to -ask politely because that's the nice thing to do- tosh!

Iamamy The boys benefit from the girls doing the work because they can spend the time doing something else.

MilkandTwo from what I can gather the 3 girls wanted to organise the work and were "bossy", he couldn't be bothered to argue.

So he's put off by them telling him what to do. I would suggest asking them one more time to redistribute the tasks and if they won't, then he should speak to the teacher to ask them to resolve it.

What's his response to the fact that his attitude is crappy? He isn't bothered about what the teacher thinks of him? What about any university references that his teacher might write?

Well maybe you should tell him that teamwork shouldn't just be about what he gets out of it or whether or not he 'needs' to do the work. It's his responsibility to step up and take his share of the work, not the girls' job to give him work.

And I disagree - he absolutely is being lazy. Your reasoning that it's not laziness because he'd do the work if it was being assessed doesn't make any sense. It's both lazy and cynical. "I'm not going to bother doing my fair share of the teamwork because nobody's actually forcing me and I'm not going to get a grade out of it, so what's the point?" - not a very commendable attitude.

I think ChocChoc has an interesting point - your DS doesn't seem to be worried that he will miss out or be less valued if he doesn't get involved - why is that?

Boys vs girls or group dynamics with a leader who is a girl and the rest passive, including your ds? It's more about group dynamics I think.

He is 'logical' in that way some scientific people can be - other A levels are sciences, x has to equal y. He is slightly self centered. He has many other good qualities. In regards to feminist issues, politically, he is more feminist that lots of girls in his year. Yeah talk the talk etc I know.

He just can't get his head around why the girls choose to allocate him a small amount of easy work. It is illogical. Why don't they just tell him?? Why should he put himself out when there is no logical benefit?

Buffy at Uni there would be a clear correlation of work = grade. So he would happily do it.