DFS advert

[Heratnumber7]

Have you seen the current DFS advert?

All the seamstresses and haberdashers are women and all the carpenters and users of big tools are men.

Why is that then DFS? Eh? Eh?

For shame on you.

So your argument to current unfairness is, well it used to be the opposite so unlucky?!?!

I havn't been in this country that long, but my experiences are of female dominance, minority focus, and that the dominant narrative is that only one group is the problem. That for me will lead to racism toward white men very quickly!

How about we acknowledge tough times in the past, but going forward do whats best for everyone? If boys are failing and dropping out of education in record numbers it needs addressing, otherwise those large numbers of disenfranchised boys will become a problem in society

Have you read that book fifa?

I think you would find it interesting

Did you read the link I gave upthread, Fifa? I really think it might help you understand what we're on about here.

Nursing is not a particularly financially well rewarded career, although it can be if you climb the ranks. It carries less status than being a doctor. It is a job typically done by women. These facts are related. This is not a controversial viewpoint.

So your argument to current unfairness is, well it used to be the opposite so unlucky?!?!

No, that's not what I'm saying. I am merely pondering why when they perceive there is a problem with boys (overlooking the fact that men still hold the majority of high paid jobs despite their apparent disadvantages) there is this idea that feminisation is to blame, when no one blamed masculinisation when girls had problems with education, careers etc.

It's a simply question. What is your answer?

Who

I am reading that, but in the first sector alone there is a glaring issue...

Janitors are paid 22% more than maids? Both are minimum wage jobs, so either women are excepting 22% less than minimum wage, or men are doing 22% more hours, which do you think is more likely?

Then 'using a complex formula' hahahaha come on.

Computer programming is a laughable instance, it went from menial labour, to expertise driven, thats laughably biased.

Not to mention its a historical performed today, and not very scholarly.

Like I said, what has happened has happened, lets move forward making things good for everyone, if more girls succeed at school, and more women graduate college, and if women are 36% more likely to get a job applied for then there is a swing in dominance, and soon there will be backlash, why not avoid mistakes of the past?

Issues surrounding womens oppression of the past are compiled due to a number of reasons, masculinity being one of them.

But things are far more nuanced than masculinity = bad femeninity = good!

Because they will be using members of their actual workforce rather than actors.

Remember Howard from the Halifax for example? He was a member of staff. I used to work for a large retailer and the people in the adverts were always actual staff members. Much cheaper than using actors.

Someone better call Stanford University and tell them - a bloke on the internet thinks their research is bollocks. They'll be happy to take on board the feedback, I'm sure.

And, I'm out. Sorry OP

It's not necessarily a mark of success to go to university.

I think many boys wanting to go into traditionally male jobs like plumbing would be unhappy if they were told they were now required to get a degree.

As an example, I recently had to turn a job down, I sat there in the waiting room with a white man my senior, he had a crazy amount of experience, and a doctorate degree in the subject, to the point where I nearly never bothered going in.

After the interview he wished me good luck, and we went our seperate ways, the interview from my POV was ok, but due to me being a little down I hadn't been my usual passionate self etc...

I got call an hour later and was offered the job, I was shocked. After a moment or 2 of conversation I grew the guts to ask about the other guy, they responded with:

'XXXX, we loved him, great experience and superb education, he wouldve made a great addition also, however here at XXXXXX we value diversity...'

At that I exploded at how disgusted I was to be considered a diversity number, and would not take part in taking a job from a man who deserved it more than me!

But things are far more nuanced than masculinity = bad femeninity = good!

Indeed: which is why I never made such a simplistic statement.

Janitors are paid 22% more than maids? Both are minimum wage jobs, so either women are excepting 22% less than minimum wage, or men are doing 22% more hours, which do you think is more likely

Well, according to payscale, which analyses actual wages, the maids do the overtime:

www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Janitor_or_Cleaner_(but_not_Maid_or_Housekeeping_Cleaner)/Hourly_Rate

www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Maid_or_Housekeeping_Cleaner/Hourly_Rate

Which has a median pay rate higher for janitors than maids, but maids make up their salary with overtime.

Interestingly, a maid's salary also stays static with experience, whereas janitors leave the job.

gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer

Also that. That's why quotas and diversity aren't bad. They've done the same with foreign sounding names.

You would be well advised to watch some of the diversity videos Google released on their hiring practices. It's fascinating how much effect unconscious bias has.

But that's enough research. You can google as well as anyone else. I have actual, paid work to do.

The most dangerous and least-wanted job in the world is female-dominated - prostitution

Did you report the employer, FIFA, given that positive discrimination is not legal in the UK?

Choc choc

But again there are flaws, janitor/cleaner isn't the same thing. Janitors are generally male custodians whereas cleaners are a female dominated industry.

There are reasons janitor/cleaner wage is higher than a maids
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8608855/Million-more-people-employ-a-cleaner-than-a-decade-ago.html

Part time cleaners earn over £10 per hour, and janitors are more regularly required to have a further skillset around the building they work.

Another would be average age, I'm willing to bet the average age of a janitor is significantly higher than that of a hotel maid, and you know minimum wage is age banded.

Interestingly, after benefits and stuff maids earn more 20k opposed to 17k. The range for maid is lower AND higher.

The stats you sent also don't differentiate between sexes, which is the focus of the debate, so although actually interesting they don't prove much except if i'm going to clean I'll do so privately, or at a multi skilled property as opposed to a hotel.

chocChoc - 'blinding' applications can help too, without requiring quotas. This on the effects of blind orchestra auditions is interesting. Of course, final interviews can rarely be blind, but at least more women can get to them.

Almond

I work in a niche environment in which my reputation is paramount (HE), reporting and making waves are not looked upon well, and I have a child to pay for soon...

Errol

Women are already better equipped to get to and be succesfull at interview, thats what we are discussing.

And we're back to a niche area that men succeed...

Despite women being more hirable across theboard, tisfaction is not gained until total dominance acheived?

Until you campaign for more industrial female workers, more bin women, and miners, construction workers etc then you are not for equality, your for dominance.

FIFA - I'm not sure its what the rest of us are discussing. [confused[

Fifa, did you read the john/jennifer study, or the effect of orchestra blinding? Well-equipped women (or 'woman' in the jennifer case) being rejected for being women due to probably unconscious biases.

Fifa - I'm sure you must be aware that while there may be more male refuse workers, male industrial worker etc there is a poorly paid female care assistant, domestic cleaner etc. Hardly 'domination'.

errol

I fear you may be wasting your typing

"Until you campaign for more industrial female workers, more bin women, and miners, construction workers etc then you are not for equality, your for dominance."

are all these more dangerous than prostitution? I'm curious to know, because men who go on about how men have to do the most dangerous, poorly-paid and insecure work always conveniently forget how many women work in prostitution