Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

Maybe she was a 'pregnant person'?

Rufus - who? Mary or Eve? If you really want to know Google 'was eve / virgin mary transgender' ... :) You might wish you hadn't though.

Off to see if God is transgender now.

Betsy, your figures of 27 killings of transwomen vs 1615 killings of women DO show a vastly increased proportional risk to transwomen in America compared with the general population, given that there are so many fewer of them.

The question is, why? I very much doubt it's a crime wave caused by Jenni Murray talking about legs and vicars.

Yep. Confirmed.

Lucky I'm an athiest eh?

I'm basing this on www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/health/transgender-population.html?_r=0, so about 0.6% of US population declaring as TG, so you'd expect 1 - 2 murders of TG women to 1600 murders of women. But possibly I need more coffee.

Betsy thanks for that link. Hope is great!

It's hard. I've just been reading about an increase in reported transphobic hate crimes (2/3 committed by men, surprisingly given I thought it was all evil TERFS ). Equally though there appears to be a rise in people coming out as transgender. And more recognition of transphobia. So is there a rise in hate crimes, or better reporting, or proportionally no rise but more trans people to become victims? Don't know.
The only certain things is that without having some kind of marker to statistically distinguish trans people we will not be able to analyse what might be happening regarding their victimisation. I don't know why trans people don't want that.

The only poster talking about 'real' transwomen is you Ego. No one else here or indeed, legally differentiates or requires any standard to be met to qualify. Only feelings.

So to get back to the point - how can we lobby the media to correctly report the facts in cases like this? I guess that's an age old question. Trans politics is deeply contradictory but my take on it is that transwomen are transwomen and no one needs to be ashamed of that, to hide that or pretend otherwise. To do so is in fact erasing transwomen and so should be considered transphobic.

uniquehornsonly: that is clearly a photograph of an adult amongst a group of children. It is irrelevant.

Nope. They're all adults: it's a college basketball team in California. The transwoman in question, Gabrielle Ludwig, is 6'6 and towers over the female players in the team.

Googling "transwoman basketball" would have returned the story and related photos in the first hits.

But by all means, strange, tell me it's false and irrelevant without checking your facts first. If you think it, it must be so. How very... male.

What constitutes a 'hate crime' in these cases? Is it using the wrong pronoun? Is it stating biology? According to strange Jenni Murray, Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel all constantly 'attack' trans people.

Disagreement with trans ideology is seen as lies and hate speech:

The trouble is that most of what I see paraded as "the truth" about trans issues is actually fiction: it is pure hate speech dressed up with non-facts, or with important facts omitted.

Wrong pronouns being 'literal violence' and claiming feminists are responsible for the deaths of thousands of transwomen is what I always hear.

Very rarely do they produce an incidence of actual violence, and it is not committed by feminists, it's male violence.

They are using feminists speaking, disagreement with the ideology and using the wrong pronoun as hate crimes.

This will definitely skew the statistics.

Agreed msrisotto the issue here is about maletrans perpetrators of crime being reported as though they are female by the media. This does an injustice to women on multiple levels. What can be done?

Strange How on earth, with a straight face, can you go from
'Most of what I see paraded as "the truth" about trans issues is actually fiction: it is pure hate speech with important facts omitted'

straight to

'Jeska is not a biological male'?

The fact that Jeska is a biological male is THE important point here. Whether you use it to argue that she would have suffered huge oppression because she was transgender, whether you say that it made her afraid of exposure, that she had higher or lower testosterone, should or shouldn't compete as a woman, has typical or atypical male violence patterns -- her male body IS the important fact in this crime that distinguishes it from 'random, weirdly inexplicable stabbing by female athlete.

I think the trans community need statistics to be a bit murky. On face value a typical MTT is a someone who has had to face prejudice and violence all their lives, had to battle to receive the drugs and surgery their need to keep them alive and then face the same murder rates of a sex worker in south america. And the truth is very different for a tw living in Britain today.

The reality is there is no typical MTT, because there is no definition of trans. Any acceptable definition would either excluded the majority of those currently identifying as MTT or be so ridiculously and vague that it would include everyone who ever lived.

"uniquehornsonly: that is clearly a photograph of an adult amongst a group of children. It is irrelevant".

Interesting that you look at it and immediately see the huge physiological differences there because they are so obvious.

And then swiftly decide that uniquehornsonly is wrong, that the photograph cannot show what it actually does show. It doesn't fit your 'truth' and therefore it must be wrong and irrelevant. All done within seconds.

That's a real insight into your thought processes there.

The figures for transgender deaths in America are appalling, actually (I've been looking at Wikipedia, so possibly not totally reliable).

But what's noticeable is that though there are dozens of cases of transwomen being killed by unknowns or by men, and four(?) cases of transmen being killed by unknowns or by men, there are none at all, worldwide, of transgender people being killed by Jenni Murray, Julie Bindel or any other woman.

Of course, half of the perps might have been unrecognised transmen, I suppose. But it does suggest that the wrath towards women is misplaced.

I wonder if informing media outlets of their transphobia by erasing transwomen through their inaccurate and frankly bigoted reporting would help them see the error of their ways?

Truth is wrong. A TW on the JM thread in chat has claimed that Jenni Murray was completely right, but she has now lost all respect for her because she shouldn't be saying it out loud.

Trans politics is deeply contradictory but my take on it is that transwomen are transwomen and no one needs to be ashamed of that, to hide that or pretend otherwise. To do so is in fact erasing transwomen and so should be considered transphobic.

Absolutely. I was thinking just that this morning.

The reality is there is no typical MTT, because there is no definition of trans. Any acceptable definition would either excluded the majority of those currently identifying as MTT or be so ridiculously and vague that it would include everyone who ever lived.

And I think that's why there actually IS general support for trans people. Most people are not 100% comfortable with the gender stereotypes of their sex and are in some way gender non conforming themselves.

The figures about myrders of and violence against MTTs show that the victims are predominantly androphile POC in prostitution or living in extreme macho communities. Middle aged, white AGP "lesbians" are at very low risk either here or in the US even though they are much less likely to pass than the former.

I have just submitted a complaint to the BBC of their transphobic erasure of transwomen and also crimes against accurate reporting obfuscating social issues

Flora do you think it correlates to homophobic hate crime? It would be interesting to see whether there are similarities between hate crimes against homosexuals and Maletotrans in those demographics.

This sorry case highlights the dangers of the lie that transwomen are women.

Indeed we can say that Knibbs and the brave colleagues who came to his aid are victims of trans ideology.

Jeska's parents have said that Jeska was motivated to kill Knibbs as they were terrified of being found out to be transgender.

If the lie that transwomen are women was not perpetuated the chances are none of this would have happened. Jeska would not have been competing in women's events and the authorities would not have asked for testing.

Plus if it was ok for transwomen to simply be transwomen we wouldn't need this untruthful and dangerous pretence that they are women and Jeska would not have been living a lie that they were terrified of being uncovered.

My conclusion is that Knibbs was a victim of male violence, trans ideology and the internalised transphobia of the trans movement.

This case highlights so much of what is wrong with trans ideology and that's without even touching on the unfairness of men competing in women's events and the lack of consideration given to women's dignity, privacy and safety.

The fact that so many newspapers have reported the crime implying that Jeska is a female athlete and failing to mention their trans status is outrageous. If, as I suspect will happen, this crime will be recorded as having a female perp and Jeska is allowed into a women's prison, we will practically have a full house.

I thought the liberals might pick their brains up and pay attention to this one because the victim is a man and a respected and principled sportsman.

But it seems not. House of cards and all that; if you want to say that transwomen are women you have to say that all transwomen are women. They have painted themselves into a corner.