Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

"what implications do you think this has when people say 'real transwomen' on here when Lauren commits such an awful crime that is much more likely to be carried out by men?"

The answer to that is so clear that by now I am actually hoping that you are being deliberately obtuse.

So if someone behaves in a way that is typically male, that makes them male then?

If a person is biologically male, by DNA test, and their behaviour shows male pattern violence, it's a little () disingenuous to think of that person as an unusual case of a woman committing a frenzied stabbing.

This isn't an unusual case of a woman committing a frenzied stabbing. This is a transwoman, who is biologically male, committing a male patterned crime, which reinforces my belief that transwomen are not women.

I will fight for a world where every individual regardless of gender sex age wealth education race sexual orientation ability is treated with respect, support their right to live safely, treat everyone I meet with courtesy etc.
I will not agree that a biological male committing male pattern violence is a woman. A transwoman, yes.

I will not agree that a biological male committing male pattern violence is a woman. A transwoman

True.

I presume Lauren used female toilets and showers. She seems to have passed well enough, had surgery and seems to have had no history of male pattern violence.

Just goes to show that women need more protection then!

seems to have had no history of male pattern violence

Loads of people say that about murderers...

Doesnt mean they didnt commit the murder or attempted murderer

If Jesus is a "real transwoman" (whatever that is), this case illustrates that the sop some women throw that they are not concerned about "real transwomen" in female spaces is unfounded (as well as unwelcome from transactivists). As MTTs have the same pattern of criminality as other men even after transition, women have every reason to be just as concerned about "real transwomen"

Jesus? Jeska

Hilarious - a man trying to tell us that a man who became a woman, who commuted a very male crime is just an unusual woman criminal not a usual male pattern criminal.

flora

I was going to say

Itll be santa next

Today 08:41 egosumquisum1

Neither can I find a single case of a transwoman here being abused in a male bathroom

Do you think that could be because transwomen don't go such areas?

I'm sure a lot of transwomen do use the male bathroom. And they are not being attacked.

It's galling and disingenuous when transwomen use statistics on violence from a different continent to claim victimhood in the U.K.

It's equally preposterous to use victimhood as any kind of argument to back up the 'transwomen are women' rhetoric. They are not women because they get picked on. And they don't get picked on because people see them as women.

It seems to happen in every single discussion with a transwoman.

The counter argument to 'transwomen are men' repeatedly spirals into a 'but we're victims!' as though it disproves it.

So if someone behaves in a way that is typically male, that makes them male then?

Well, if that person was born a man, has a very masculine body, athletically performs in a masculine way, refuses to give a testosterone sample and then commits violent attempted murder, then one thing is for sure:

They ain't a woman.

Hope that helps with your question.

If Jesus is a "real transwoman" (whatever that is) ... well he was rather known for long flowy clothes and hanging around with prostitutes ...

Long hair as well yet ....apparently

Jeska being male is pretty important to the outcome of the crime. A woman is unlikely have been able to inflict so much damage on 3 men. Ralph Knibbs would likely not have sustained such serious injuries had Jeska been a woman. As it was he only (barely) survived because of his own size and strength.

Most people are willing to use preferred pronouns etc out of courtesy. Expecting people to accept violent male murderers and rapists as women is an outrageous abuse of that.

Refus- or that they didn't commit other acts of male pattern violence previously, just not caught, or possible just not convicted

I almost wish I hadn't Googled that ...

WTF- trans woman drives for hours armed with knives in a premeditated attempt to murder someone and we get a "women do it too" response. Fuck that.

ego I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here but whatever it is, arguing Jeska is no different to any other woman and what they did is a "person crime" is inflammatory on a feminist board.

Arguing violent crimes of this type are "person crimes" is not something a feminist does.

Flipping heck yet where did you find that? Trying to explain jesus as set out in the Bible using science pffffffft

I think that one of the most important things about this thread is how trans rights can oppose women's rights. Women have fought long and hard battle to identify and join up the acts of male violence - and to have it understood that there is a pattern to male perpetration- it is not random or down to bad luck.

The way Jeska's crimes have been reported, totally undermines women's fight by attributing a male crime that fits this male pattern, to a woman -which sharply bucks against it.

I'm sure the reason this incorrect reporting was spotted was because women thought 'something doesn't smell right - here. That sounds like the behaviour of a bloke not a woman' and dug deeper, to find suspicions confirmed.

I'll be really pissed off if Male to trans crimes are now logged as perpetrated by females in crime stats.

Quentin ... I used Google. It's a thing apparently (not using Google, but Jesus being trans). I think they may be on to Eve as well (as really being male because she came from Adam).

Absolutely wobbly

Strange "transwomen are at far greater risk of suffering from male vioence than non-trans women"

This reports 27 killings of transgender people in the US in 2016.

This reports 1615 killings of women in the US in 2013.

So for murders, your statement is clearly not true. Don't even go there with the stats on domestic violence - the figures for women are scary!

In the UK in 2015 this states 186 female victims of homicide and one of unknown gender. I searched media for this case and it is unclear whether the motive was homophobic or transphobic.

This study: Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery concludes that regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.

So, for example someone such as Lauren Jeska, is just as likely to be as violent post-SRS as she was as a man prior to surgery. This brings into question your statements about reduced testosterone making people calmer and lowering aggression.

And your claim that Jeska had no testosterone at all - how do you then account for the aggressive and violent act that sh'es been convicted of? Or indeed that she refused to supply blood samples for testing (as ALL athletes have to do) if she had no cause for concern over testosterone levels?

And again, please do not use the term non-trans woman. I, and many others here find it offensive.

yet

How did she have a baby from her woo then

Was supposed to read not that they didn't but guess it was obvious!

And this MTT (who considers himself a man) has been using male toilets for several years without incident.