Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

It is an example of male violence committed by a transwoman

It's also an example of a violence that women and transwomen are capable of carrying out.

ego

Violent crimes are commited by both sexes. Fact.
Of those crimes the large majority are committed by males. Fact.
That shows males are more violent than females.
I dont see what your issue is frankly.

You are being obtuse if you are trying to lump rates of female violent crime in the same league as male violent crime.
That was Cotes point.

You are being deliberately obtuse and also trying to confuse the issue with all that "Oh but women can attack, too."

So can children. So can the elderly, disabled, or whatever unlikely group of people you can think of. That is not the glaringly obvious point written across the sky in flashing 10-foot letters, which everyone apart from you can see.

It's also an example of a violence that women and transwomen are capable of carrying out.

No it isnt because a women did not commit this crime. A man did.
If you dont want to call him a man fine say transwomen but you cannot state a women committed this crime it is factually not true as men cannot become women.

That shows males are more violent than females

Of course they are.

I dont see what your issue is frankly

My issue was the response to this statement

"Women, men and transwomen have carried out premeditated attacks "

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The point is that such unprovoked premeditated attempted homicide with huge knives is not a typically female course of action. It's a typically male one.

Women, men and transwomen have carried out premeditated attacks.

And yes, men are far far far more likely to carry out such attacks.

If you dont want to call him a man fine say transwomen but you cannot state a women committed this crime

It's a good thing that's not been said then by me, is it.

Wait a minute

The whole point of the thread (unless i am on the wrong thread which has happened)

Is the reporting of the crime

The media and police in some cases, are not reporting the facts of these cases

Its warping statistics or lying as i like to call it

It should say transwoman, transmen, man or woman

I think I understand what you are saying Ego. Think.

Having said that, Lauren's crime will be recorded as having been committed by a woman. I think the overwhelming majority, if not all, frenzied knife attacks are committed by men. Women tend to stab a partner in perceived self defence (not exclusively, but mainly). I'll have a Google and see what I can find.

I'm uncomfortable with crimes committed against trans people being recorded as such in order to monitor hate crime, and crimes committed by trans people being recorded only according to their gender identity. I think it might be helpful to be aware of the extent to which dramatically changing someone's hormone balance affects their behaviour. Maybe transmen struggle to manage the testosterone rage men grow learning to cope with Maybe transwomen struggle to manage without testosterone. Should crimes be recorded accurately to help that be assessed?

On the "typically" thing:

Feminists often use "male violence" as shorthand for "male pattern violence" . That is not to say that it is unheard of or impossible for women to be violent in those ways rather that it is vanishingly rare (or has never happened) and that the type of violence is overwhelmingly associated with men.

Repeatedly stabbing people with big knives in an unprovoked attempt to murder them is male pattern violence. And it makes an utter mockery of the claim that Jeska is not male. It also makes it deeply misogynistic to claim that Jeska is a woman.

Hang on, are we actually all agreeing then? All kinds of people commit crimes, including oremeditated knife crimes, but male born people do it more? I'm getting confused about what we are arguing about...

"ego you are not stupid so why are you pretending to not know the meaning of that word?"

This is what ego does. It used to goad me into losing civility (so ego would play the poor victim) but I don't dance to that tune anymore. And these days MNers are more aware of the logical fallacies and subterfuge employed by those who advocate the trans agenda, so such behavior is quickly called out, as you just did.

And it makes an utter mockery of the claim that Jeska is not male

Because she committed a crime overwhelmingly carried out by men but also carried out rarely by women and transwomen?

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, walks like a duck...

If she wins competitions due to a masculine body type and commits male pattern violence...

picklemepopcorn I think we urgently need an assessment of violent acts carried out by transwomen as considering how few transwomen there are they seem to be disproportionately represented in violent crime.

Whether that is due to hormones, mental health, narcissism, psychopathic lack of empathy or whatever also needs to be determined. But that will not happen until we can stop with the "transwomen are women and the hardest done by of all minorities" brainwashing of the general population.

So if someone behaves in a way that is typically male, that makes them male then?

I think we urgently need an assessment of violent acts carried out by transwomen as considering how few transwomen there are they seem to be disproportionately represented in violent crime

That would be an interesting assessment - but I would wonder how the numbers of trans women in the population would be assessed and how 'transwoman' would be defined - because there are different definitions out there.

It would also need to be a detailed assessment rather than headline statistics with enough numbers to be reliable

Because she committed a crime overwhelmingly carried out by men but also carried out rarely by women and transwomen?

No ego. Because Jeska is a male who not only is male but also behaves in a male pattern violence manner. And women are expected to pretend that they believe this person to be female, a woman.

It is ridiculous and sickening. Stop insulting our intelligence and our womanhood with this dangerous male rights crap.

I can't find the link but I will keep trying that analysed the statistical figures for violence against transwomen.

Even given the low estimate of how many transpeople there are, they still fell below the percentage of women who have experienced violence. Part of the problem was not knowing exactly how many transwomen there are. But, obviously, the more there are, the lower the overall percentage was.

It is concentrated in Brazil and also towards Native Americans.

2-3 women a week are killed here. No transwoman has been killed here, ever.

Neither can I find a single case of a transwoman here being abused in a male bathroom.

I'm not disputing that transwomen come in for abuse, but women have lived with this in their lives since forever. It's nothing new to women.

But when transwomen call people out or say they are being 'attacked' merely by pointing out they are male or using the wrong pronoun, it totally undermines their claims that they are victimised.

And yes Jeska was being tested for testosterone. Whether it was because she only had top surgery, or whether it was because she was taking testosterone (something that post up transwomen can do, in small amounts), who knows. The fact is her hormone levels were being monitored to make sure she was competing fairly.

And if she wasn't 'cheating' then why didn't she comply with the tests? Why did she feel the need to go and stab a man repeatedly in the neck?

What were the 'historical complaints'? Could it be that the female competitors felt it wasn't a level playing field? And if it wasn't, that should absolutely be investigated, as it would for any other competitor who was taking artificial hormones. Or are there somehow different rules for a transwoman?

So if someone behaves in a way that is typically male, that makes them male then?

Now you are being idiotic ego.

I will not engage with you any further. That statement is enough for me to see your goady pants are showing

Neither can I find a single case of a transwoman here being abused in a male bathroom

Do you think that could be because transwomen don't go such areas?

I've worked with quite a few (proportionally) teen girls who committed knife crimes, but they were almost all within groups iirc. & I seem to recall some training &/or discussion on similar trends in UK &,us with this, but other than that small blip I think it's overwhelmingly male crime

if someone behaves in a way that is typically male, that makes them male then?

Nope. When someone who is male commits an act of male pattern violence, it confirms that it is wrong to force women to pretend to agree that the person is female. It confirms to women that the person is male. And it makes us very suspicious as to the motives of anyone who wants to gaslight us over the issue by telling us that transwomen are women and that we are hateful bigots responsible for harm done to transwomen if we will not capitulate with that patently untrue statement.

What makes someone commit such an act of violence?

It's an awful act. And an act carried out by men, women and transwomen. That's what I am trying to say.

When someone who is male commits an act of male pattern violence, it confirms that it is wrong to force women to pretend to agree that the person is female

So what implications do you think this has when people say 'real transwomen' on here when Lauren commits such an awful crime that is much more likely to be carried out by men?

"Hang on, are we actually all agreeing then? All kinds of people commit crimes, including oremeditated knife crimes, but male born people do it more? I'm getting confused about what we are arguing about... "

That is the goal - to confuse us. Don't fall for it.

Premeditated & unprovoked attack with huge knives is a typically male method of attempted murder. When women plan to kill, they do so from a distance, and preferred methods are gunshot and poison - understandably, because we know that we are not as strong as the man we want to kill and so try to act from a distance.

Women of course "can" kill men with knives and blunt force objects but these relatively few cases are almost always self defence, using whatever objects are available around them. Not with huge bread knives they take to an office in broad daylight with the express intent of stabbing them to death, because that person is doing his job.