To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

[FRETGNIKCUF]

This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.


Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

[Comejointhemurder]

I wonder who asked for it to be moved?

[IfTheCapFitsWearIt]

Doubt it bumbly its already being discussed on a couple of threads.

And what/how the Op has put it, makes them sound like a raving fanatic. Which is counter productive to raising awareness of the corrosion of womens rights.

[Trills]

If a particular tax or law affects people who menstruate, why not say that?

If a particular law affects people who are, or who could get, pregnant, why not say that?

Shrug, basically.

I disagree with the tweet about "Menstruators" not because it "calls women menstruators" but because people who do not menstruate (including me) would still celebrate the recognition that sanitary items are not a luxury good.

How about "All right-thinking people celebrate"?

[RestlessTraveller]

MNHQ Why was this thread moved?

[NotAnotherHarlot]

On another note, how about PEOPLE who have bought tampons.

Presumably male partners of women, fathers, school nurses or administrators and lots that I can't currently think of also purchase tampons and pads?

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

I always wonder why, if we women are the oppressed underclass, trans women are so desperate to have access to our 'rights'.

Either we are oppressed, in which case why the fuck would they want to go backwards in terms of rights, or we aren't, in which case the whole feminism is undermined.

And why are all trans women predators? Surely this is like the bad old days when people thought that gay men would assault people because they couldn't keep their hands off every man on the planet?

The increasing hysteria is not helping the anti trans cause. And then there's a blanket denial of being transphobic

[Ego147]

I was under the impression that people wanted to raise awareness of trans issues and how they affect women.

I'm surprised it's been moved to the much quieter FWR section when it is clearly an AIBU.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Excuse typos and lack of peer reviewed research

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

All they seem interested in is bashing those who are different - similar to the kind of shite that's been going on through the ages against every minority.

And if you really judge all TW by the comments of the more extreme ones, then that says more about you than the TW community.

[IfTheCapFitsWearIt]

Theres ways of raising awareness.

Then there is a spewing of alianating badly thought out rants.

[HermioneWeasley]

I can't recall anybody ever saying "all TW are predators". Or even that the vocal misogynist trans activists are reflective of all trans people.

Many of us who are now gender critical have previously been vocal trans allies and have trans friends.

The point is that when the definition of "woman" becomes "a vague feeling in someone's head" for which there is no objective measure, it opens up previous,y sex segregated spaces up to predators. There is loads of evidence of this happening where the laws have been changed - from men being naked in women's spaces (previously known as indecent exposure) through to secret filming, sexual assault and violence.

Most of us would LOVE to ignore the trans activists and dismiss them as fringe loons. Unfortunately, for some inexplicable reason they have been incredibly influential and are getting laws changed. When you have the Canadian govt name checking Stefonknee for their contributions to trans rights, you know something is seriously amiss.

[Ego147]

This is a great thread - worthy of raising awareness and it should be on AIBU so everyone can read it rather than being on a section where people are no doubt aware of the issues surrounding trans people and the effect on women's lives.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

There are evil fuckers in every group.

This is the one thing I hate about this site sometimes - it falls over itself to be tolerant until it comes to trans issues. And then the blanket denial from people that they are anti trans - having read many many posts in Trans issues here that ALWAYS makes me

Someone who dresses up as a woman and assaults women in toilets is fucked up. He or she does not represent the trans community

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

And like a PP said, FWR is an echo chamber.

So from my earlier post, do women have so many lovely rights than men need to infringe on them?

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

So we are to be defined by the fact you menstruate or not? Will it have to be declared on forms. Why is this being done? Is it protect the feeling of my mum, now that she no longer menstruates? Or those on contraception, who must be protected from any implication that they can in fact menstruate? Or just to remind those who menstruate that they do, because some of them forget that they writhe in pain every month?

[HermioneWeasley]

livia the criminals may or may not be trans - that's not the issue. The point is by saying "woman" is an "identity" you make women and girls less safe.

[Ego147]

Then get this thread out there rather than hiding it on FWR.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Ego yes but then they may have to engage with people who have a different viewpoint

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Out of interest, is a man more dangerous if he identifies as a woman? If not, wtf is there so much naval gazing about the big scary men coming to take our rights away?

The rights that are specific to women like maternity leave are still only going to be available to people who give birth. Adoption leave isn't going to change. What rights are they eroding, other than the right to occupy a 'safe space' that is women only?

Of course everyone has the right to be against anything but you can't expect everyone to back you in your opinions.

[IfTheCapFitsWearIt]

Personally I don't think it belongs here either.

But I was referring to bumbly who said op would get more sympathetic response here. I was pointing out its already being discussed here.

[Gothgirl78]

I don't why it was moved from aibu. I lurk in feminist chat and have learned a lot but can't agree with certain points . The trans issue is on

[NotAnotherHarlot]

How about women's right to have personal care and medical exams performed by a woman?

[Seryph]

Here's a question, I'm on the pill so technically I don't menstruate I do however have 'break-through- bleeding' once a month during my break week, what does that make me?

In all seriousness though I hope think it was probably a pun on 'demonstrators'

[HermioneWeasley]

livia I have no idea if men are more dangerous in a dress

The point is there are plenty of examples of either trans women, or men claiming to be trans, to access women's spaces and hurt women. Enough that it should be a concern.

If TW aren't safe in male space then we either need third spaces or to tackle male violence. Making women even less safe isn't the answer.

Christopher/Jessica Hanbrook accessed 2 women's shelters and sexually assaulted 3 women and 1 child. They were granted access on the basis of identifying as female. What is your acceptable number of women and children to be sexually assaulted as a result of "identification"? Mine is none. We are already way above that.

[MrsBruceBogtrotter]

Widening the meaning of woman to include men with identities is dangerous. It's dangerous in the sense that it brings an end to woman-only spaces, and it also fucks up statistics (healthcare, crime, quotas etc.)