My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

380 replies

FRETGNIKCUF · 04/09/2016 07:34

This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.



Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

OP posts:
Report
AltheaThoon · 04/09/2016 12:06

Well quite Ego. Common sense really isn't it? But I have seen tweets from mtt demanding that discussions regarding women's issues be halted due to thrm being trans exclusionary and 'really fucking triggering'. And those voices shout the loudest unfortunately and they're the voices we're fighting back against.

Report
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 12:07

I meant the FWR board - but I think you knew that....

I don't privilege the feelings of anyone over anyone. I don't believe that every person in a group should be judged on the actions of a criminal minority. I don't believe that having a cock makes you intrinsically evil. If that makes me a misogynist then I'm happy to own it.

And I speak as someone who was raped as a 15 yo virgin so I'm not exactly naive about the danger of being assaulted.

Report
IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 12:07

It's not a bogeyman. It's happening now in the US. Mandated by Obama .

Where the US goes we follow

Report
venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 12:07

I believe it has the reputation for being an oasis of clear thinking on gender identity issues in a sea of ordure. As you'd hope for from a site predominantly created for and posted on by women who have given birth.

Report
TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 04/09/2016 12:08

a quote from one of those links

^Male-to-Female transgenders are 18 times more likely than women to be convicted of violent crime

Regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.

In other words, MtF’s were seven times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than women, and just as likely as “cis” males to be convicted of a violent crime.^

Report
Ego147 · 04/09/2016 12:09

Common sense really isn't it? But I have seen tweets from mtt demanding that discussions regarding women's issues be halted due to thrm being trans exclusionary and 'really fucking triggering

Quite. I know what my body can and can't do - and I've had to accept that. Not demand that other people change their language.

And those voices shout the loudest unfortunately and they're the voices we're fighting back against

I know.

Report
venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 12:11

Livia

It's not about "having a cock makes you intrinsically evil" now is it? I thought you understood the issues? It's also about the rights of women to have certain intimate spaces as women only, for reasons of privacy, dignity and comfort as well as safety. Why don't you think their feelings are important, and why are they trumped by trans people's?

Report
IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 12:11

Livia

None said cocks were intrinsically bad. I'm rather fond of my husband's, for example. But seeing random cocks in the changing rooms is quite another thing, And especially for young girls. It's bloody child abuse to put them in the same changing room

Report
NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 12:11

The changing room boogeyman?

I'm going to ask this again:

Are you familiar with the sexual offence indecent exposure? And that currently a naked man in a female changing room is indeed indecent exposure?

Apparently that was considered enough of a problem to create law around it. And yet now it isn't. Can anyone explain why?

Feel free to cover voyeurism, I'm genuinely interested to know why these offences are no longer considered to be a concern.

Report
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 12:12

An 'oasis of clear thinking' GrinGrinGrin

And wtf is the relevance to 'women who have given birth'?

Are they a special sub category that need protection from the scary penis-wielding men?

What about women who have adopted? Or don't have children at all?

Report
Ego147 · 04/09/2016 12:13

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery

n other words, MtF’s were seven times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes

What crimes were they? No answer because you don't know. Were they crimes because of circumstances?

How many people involved? 15 crimes over a 30 year period.

That study is always quoted - and always need fact checking. It's also off topic so I'm not going to fact check it again. But it's the one that's always quoted on here but has many flaws as it involves a small number of transwomen over a long period with little detail on the actual crimes.

Report
Ego147 · 04/09/2016 12:15

Anyway - this thread seems to have been massively derailed from the OP.

It's just a shame that there are some transactivists who do feel the need to shout loudly about things like tampons being trans exclusionary.

Report
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 12:17

Sadly there are wankers who are looking to be offended on every side, Ego - it doesn't help their cause at all

Report
NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 12:18

I'm not sure how it is being detailed when it was being stated as a recent example of how transactivism is impacting on women and children.

Report
NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 12:18

Derailed even.

Report
Ego147 · 04/09/2016 12:20

I'm not sure how it is being detailed when it was being stated as a recent example of how transactivism is impacting on women and children

There's not many people discussing the OP - but a lot of people discussing 'fully loaded cocks in changing rooms'

Report
IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 12:20

Sure, I'm a wanker who doesn't want women or girls to have to see random cocks in the changing room. I'll "own that"

Report
NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 12:20

Possibly because without transactivism that would be a sexual offence?

Report
venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 12:21

The point is a lot of the reason women are discriminated against all over the world is due to their status as the sex and reproductive class. The majority of posters on this site are not vacuous, unthinking social justice warriors with no real experience of being discriminated against because of their sex. Or men, whether MRAs or super progressive "male feminists". Unlike Twitter, tumblr etc. This is in the main a women's site dealing with women's issues.

Report
IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 12:21

All parts of the TA agenda though, isn't it? So not derailing at all.

Report
venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 12:23

I think the issue of safe spaces for women is fully relevant to the issue of the encroachment of trans ideology into the words used about women's issues.

Report
VestalVirgin · 04/09/2016 12:24

In other words, MtF’s were seven times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than women, and just as likely as “cis” males to be convicted of a violent crime

Since they are all males, that's rather intuitive.

After all, there is no reason why on earth a preference for wearing make-up, high heels and flowery dresses would make someone less violent. (And that's assuming that the trans who want into women's bathrooms even dress like that, and aren't just random dudes with average dude clothes demanding access to women's spaces, something that increasingly happens.)

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 04/09/2016 12:28

"It's just a shame that there are some transactivists who do feel the need to shout loudly about things like tampons being trans exclusionary."

I do wonder whether the people behind this kind of thing even are trans. If someone wanted to discredit transfer people while simultaneously sticking the boot to women the behaviour of extreme transactivists would be a great way to go about it. It reminds me of the 'free bleeding' thing which turned out to an attempt to make feminists look stupid. In other words a stunt that has been taken seriously and which is enormously damaging.

Report
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 12:28

There's no reason why a preference for wearing make up etc would make someone more violent either.

Report
SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 04/09/2016 12:28

Transfer people, sorry, autocorrect strikes again.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.