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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

380 replies

FRETGNIKCUF · 04/09/2016 07:34

This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.



Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

OP posts:
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Caipora · 04/09/2016 10:56

I think one of the biggest problems is that the term male and female are used interchangeably with men and women. The social construction of male and female has become intertwined with men and woman. The social rules are so rigid that people become confused, they want to reject the sexual and biological aspects that have become an accepted part of gender.

A truely healthy future would be one where being a female man or a male woman would be a mainstream and accepted social role. Biological factors would no longer be intertwined with gender. The way it currently is we are moving even further from this by reinforcing the idea that biological and social contructs are rigidly connected. That females can only be women and vice versa, leading to a greater rejection and hatred of people's biological bodies and the inevitabile greater marginalisation of non-binary people.

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WinnieFosterTether · 04/09/2016 11:05

The fact is that there have always been women who don't or no longer 'menstruate' just as there are women who are not or never will be pregnant.Yet, the language traditionally used for people who buy tampons or are pregnant has been 'women' eg 'women's health services'; 'women's sanitary products'.
Do we think the language has been changed to 'menstruators' because Planned Parenthood are worried about offending women who don't menstruate? Or is it more likely that they changed the wording because a very vocal and highly funded minority are putting pressure on Planned Parenthood to police their language so it doesn't offend transwomen ie born male but now 'idenitfy' as a woman?
The PPs saying this isn't about having transwomen as friends or using the correct pronouns or about the transwomen who want to quietly live their lives, is right. It's not about any of that. It's about a powerful political lobby that is having much more influence than it should (per head of population) and that is systematically eroding women's identity, language and rights. The transwomen I know are equally as appalled about this.

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Mypurplecaravan · 04/09/2016 11:13

Or was it a pun on demonstrators?

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Mypurplecaravan · 04/09/2016 11:19

Using the heinous actions of one person who shares a characteristic with another person to define both people is wrong.

Eg Rachel and naomi fee abused and murdered rachel's son. How many more lesbians are going to have access to children and repeat this? We should remove all children from women in a same sex relationship because 1 is too many.

It is a ridiculous argument and yet many agree with it.

Men who pretend to be women in order to abuse women are vile. And I don't think you"ll find any trans woman who disagrees with that statement

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NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:23

How about as a group men are considered to be sufficiently dangerous to women and girls that there are places and procedures which are separated by biological sex and protected in law?

Because that is a fact.

New legislation covering the right to self determine one's gender will make it impossible for the current laws as they are written to be upheld.

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IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:25

So you want teenage boys in the changing room with your daughters? Or fully cocked men with you in the gym changing rooms?

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venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:26

mypurplecaravan

Are you truly incapable of visualising any scenario where women might need/wish for an environment free from men?

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LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:28

fully cocked men

WTAF? Hmm

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IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:29

Men with cocks and balls intact, while you are changing. Is that better?

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Moosa · 04/09/2016 11:31

That's like saying because there are men who abuse young boys, that all gay men are paedophiles and should be treated with suspicion.

I dunno, I imagine if a man is going to rape a woman he will likely find an easier way to go about it. As opposed than changing his sex then sneaking into a changing room.

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venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:32

No, it really is nothing like that. We have sex segregated spaces for a reason.

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Ego147 · 04/09/2016 11:33

Strange how a thread about 'menstruators' and tampons has become another thread about changing rooms.

Some might call that derailing.

And this thread is preaching to the converted as it's now on FWR rather than in the original AIBU spot. I pity the poor posters who are trying to offer an alternate voice now it's on FWR.

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venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:33

It's not just about safety, it's about privacy and dignity. Women have a right to that as much as trans people do.

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ClaudiaWankleman · 04/09/2016 11:33

fully cocked men with you in the gym changing rooms
This demonstrates how frenzied/ crazy/ ridiculous you're all being. God save us.

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IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:34

No sneaking into changing rooms, Men with cock and balls allowed into the women's changing room. Teenage boys with cock and balls being allowed into your daughters' changing rooms. This (the latter) is happening now in the US, mandated by the US President himself. Happy with that?

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Moosa · 04/09/2016 11:34

Surely a trans man would have had to have an operation of some sort before he is no longer a man though?

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venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:35

A trans man is a woman who identifies as a man. This may or may not include having an operation.

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NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:36

Menstruators is factually incorrect as it refers to those who use the product not those who purchase it.

Presumably now that people can use the faculties which you identify with this mean that tampon and pad dispensers, and disposal facilities will be put in all toilet facilities?

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ClaudiaWankleman · 04/09/2016 11:37

Funnily enough, the earth being flat might be one of the most cogent things said on this thread...

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WinnieFosterTether · 04/09/2016 11:38

Or was it a pun on demonstrators?
No, it wasn't. There are numerous articles on how language around menstruation and pregnancy is changing and why, from both sides of the debate. None of them try to dismiss these substantial changes as puns. Hmm Your deliberately facetious approach is not shared by either side.
Changing language and laws isn't inconsequential.

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NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:39

Moosa - no. Anyone can declare they are male or female and then access spaces, facilities, and access people's bodies of the opposite sex to perform personal care and medical treatment.

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IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:40

No need for an operation. Cock and balls not a problem. Put on a dress and say you are a girl and you are allowed into the girls' changing room.

...Today, in the US, mandated by the US President.

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venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:40

Yes, people are concerned that the term "menstruators" is pandering to the trans lobby and erasing women as a group. I personally have also come across "uterus bearers" and "womb bearers" online. Yes this is also relevant to the issue of female safe spaces and how women are thrown under the bus in general.

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FreshwaterSelkie · 04/09/2016 11:42

I pity the poor posters who are trying to offer an alternate voice now it's on FWR

The posters on this thread seem very capable of holding their own. I don't think there's any need to pity them. There's equally no real need to be so snidey to FWR, but so many of your posts have this edge to them. It's OK that people disagree with you, you know. You could just not enter the conversation, rather than repeatedly bemoaning the fact that the conversation takes place and jumping in to say you think it shouldn't. I get some of this stuff must be hard to read - wouldn't it be better to step away (I mean better for you, I'm not the boss of you being here or not).

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LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:43

You do know that cocks don't actually have a mind of their own though, and they aren't actually scary in themselves?

If a man wants to assault a woman, he will do so. Not being able to go into a female space is not going to stop him. And going into a female space is not going to suddenly turn all men into predators.

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