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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

380 replies

FRETGNIKCUF · 04/09/2016 07:34

*This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.*

Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:45

Do you understand that it is not all about safety, Livia? It's also about privacy, dignity and women's boundaries?

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:46

Lucia are you familiar with the sexual offence indecent exposure? And that currently a naked man in a female changing room is indeed indecent exposure?

Apparently that was considered enough of a problem to create law around it. And yet now it isn't. Can anyone explain why?

venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:47

Why do you think it's ok to pander to trans people's feelings in increasingly ridiculous ways yet not give a fuck about women's and girls' feelings? Are you just a misogynist?

Moosa · 04/09/2016 11:48

Hmmm, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a fully fledged man simply identifying as a woman and then being treated as one.

I think there needs to be some legal clarity under what circumstances a trans man can identify as a woman.... I would say not having a penis is the main one.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quoted a deleted post.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:49

Ah I see the accusations of being a misogynist have started.

Ego147 · 04/09/2016 11:49

Want this out in AIBU still

I think this would be great in AIBU.

As an aside, it doesn't bother me at all to see tampons and sanitary products described as women's products. And anyone who takes offense - either because they don't want to upset transwomen or because they are trans - needs to take a long good look at themselves.

NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:50

Moosa - and that is exactly why women are getting loud about this stuff. Not because we are transphobic, but because it is being mishandled and detrimental to women and girls.

venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:50

That's the issue moosa. Don't worry, most other people don't understand it either. There really are people on this thread who think that all female-identifying men should be allowed to get their cocks out in a communal women's changing room, and that there should be no exemptions.

venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:51

I'd just love you to answer my first question though, Livia.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:51

Livia

If you are happy for you or your daughter to confront a hairy cock after a gym class, then I can't really argue with you. But I don't want that and I think most women wouldn't. And most people, including the fathers of the daughters who would be sharing a changing room with bare hairy cocks, would not be quite so happy.

And as far as cocks not having a mind of their own, given that most transwomen are still attracted to women, what are the chances of the hairy cocks reacting to young teenage girls in a state of undress?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:52

Someone is always going to be offended by terminology - a quick look round MN shows that. Whatever terms you use, you risk offending.

Does it make me less of a woman to be called 'womb bearer' or whatever else? No, to be honest I'm not that much of a special snowflake.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:53

I understand the issues. I just don't agree with your stance on them. Presumably that's allowed, or does feminism just mean that women can think and do what they want as long as it accords with the hive mind?

venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 11:54

Yes you don't agree. So why do you think the feelings of trans people matter so much more than the feelings of women and girls?

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:55

Livia
It wasn't a personal attack. But please feel free to report now and see how far that gets you

AltheaThoon · 04/09/2016 11:58

What irritates me is that there doesn't seem to be a drive to change language regarding men. Are men ever described as 'penis owners' or 'sperm producers'? If women become 'menstruators' not only is it erasing, it's down right dehumanising.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 11:58

Livia
You do know that cocks don't actually have a mind of their own though, and they aren't actually scary in themselves?

So big hairy cocks, and possibly erert big hairy cocks in the women and girls' changing rooms then? Is that your position?

NotAnotherHarlot · 04/09/2016 11:59

Livia that's the equivalent of saying "I'm not like other girls." Which is disparaging to those who are affected and do care.
Womb bearer is dehumanising.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 04/09/2016 11:59

Grin at the sarcasm. Seriously if you can't be bothered to discuss without accusations of misogyny or being aggressive/sarcastic, then it's no wonder this board has the reputation it does Grin

Ego147 · 04/09/2016 12:00

Going back to the OP, anyone who takes offence at such things that are marketed at women because they are not 'trans inclusive' is not doing themselves any favours.

Transwomen don't have periods. That's a fact.
Transmen don't have prostate issues. That's a fact.

I don't get upset by that. It's just something trans people have to accept.

venusinscorpio · 04/09/2016 12:02

I asked if you were a misogynist, Livia. I didn't call you one. But it's very telling you haven't answered my question. Why do you privilege the feelings of trans people over those of women and girls?

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 04/09/2016 12:03

Livia

Your true colours are showing.....
Seriously if you can't be bothered to discuss without accusations of misogyny or being aggressive/sarcastic, then it's no wonder this board has the reputation it does

Tourist, are you? What 'reputation' does MN have?

Comejointhemurder · 04/09/2016 12:06

The changing rooms bogeyman. All those hairy cocks.

Accusations of misogyny or ignorance if you don't agree.

Excessive anger oh and picking on the openly trans poster and then saying that isn't happening even though it can clearly be seen.

It's always the same. And it's alienating other women - the ones that you say you're shouting about this for.

The well - respected MN FWR poster Blisstory made a fantastic post saying this far more eloquently than I can on the 'thoughts on MN response to the spartacus' thread.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 04/09/2016 12:06

I haven't checked every single link provided in this blog post but it details transwomen who have assaulted and/or raped women and girls in bathrooms. There are a lot of links here and I apologise for that but this is why the female only spaces are important and why women are fighting to keep them.

guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149693097880/whiterose1927-expedientskies

This is not conclusive. This does not contain every assault. Rape is under reported and rarely has a conviction.