Very sad article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women

[Italiangreyhound]

Interesting and deeply saddening article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

I suppose you could couch it in terms of give and take. You are giving a blow job, ie sexual pleasure, what are you getting in return? Physical pleasure? Affection? Approval? Some sort of debt pay off? Sounds a bit commercialised but might make them think.

Difficult conversation to have though, for both adult and teen.

However, I am not sure there is a positive word that describes a woman who knows that she deserves good things and doesn't deserve bad things and sets boundaries.
Self-esteem is a noun, how does one make it an adjective?

An self-aware, assertive female - asaf!

RE "You are giving a blow job, ie sexual pleasure, what are you getting in return? Physical pleasure? Affection? Approval? Some sort of debt pay off? Sounds a bit commercialised but might make them think."

I am not sure any woman needs to think of sex as any sort of debt pay off!

Re "Difficult conversation to have though, for both adult and teen." - Maybe women, all women need to start to get in touch with what they actually want. My guess is there would be a lot more celibate women out there is they did this! Just a guess.

Oh lord- I don't like the "trade off" idea either! I haven't got anything to suggest though.......

I mean he gave you oral the last time...., I don't mean he bought you a bag of chips or a vodka and coke.... hopefully they are not thinking that either

"I mean he gave you oral the last time...." does that mean that you have to give him a bj this time? What if you don't want to?

I am probably filtering this through an adults' experiences. In an ongoing relationship (rather than a hook up), no one does their own favourite activity all the time. They don't do things they abhor either. A healthy balanced sexual relationship, we do my favourite but maybe it's third on your list and vice versa. I do things for you that don't do much physically for me, but psychogically I like to give you pleasure and it's requited . Balanced, equal, pleasurable for both.

So a committed, caring, loving relationship where you are looking out for each other? Why can't we just teach kids about that then?

BertrandRussell we are agreeing with each other lots! Is this normal!

That's the question

Totally normal, italiangreyhound- atheists are people too!

I feel sure of it Berty!

I came back to this thread and thought I was on the sex board

not helpful!

There is an interesting thread on here about prostitution as well, it is interesting some of the same arguments are used about women making choices!

I think someone commented that prostitution and pornography are basically the same. Someone is being paid to have sex which they would not be having if they were not being paid.

The arguments on both sides will be largely the same other than men , and women for that matter, who are very unlikely to have any experience of prostitution may have experience of porn.

Didn't finish that sentence - and therefore porn potentially affects far more people.

IGH whilst I mostly agree with you and think I have a similar moral stance on the matter - we can not assume some women do not choose to prostitute themselves. 'Glamour' models can make a pretty sum, that's attractive to some women who convince themselves that selling their bodies is empowering.

I honestly blame the Kardashian culture for this. Look how selling a porn video spiralled them into being celebrities. This seems a lot easier than studying/working hard to earn a living. Intelligence doesn't have the same marketing appeal for media outlets. Sex sells....

As I said previously. I would only ever sell myself out of desparation, that would be the very last resort to feeding my child but some women are dazzled by the high life and the high end sex trade can pay for this. Those women choose to do it and you and I can't stop them. I only ever want to ensure they are safe, through regulations if necessary.

The other thread you mentioned touched on how it can be made safe but the discussion took another direction and whilst I agree it shouldn't be condoned I find regulating it the lesser of two evils.

Peyia good points but -
Page 3 and Kardashians are not really the majority of porn so we can't use them as examples for what most prostituted women and girls will experience, can we?

Re "As I said previously. I would only ever sell myself out of desperation, that would be the very last resort to feeding my child but some women are dazzled by the high life and the high end sex trade can pay for this."

Of course a tiny number of women may choose to prostitute themselves but that doesn't make it OK, or does it? Is it OK to sell your organs to feed your family? Where does choice begin and end. And of course many, many more women and girls will not choose, either no real choice (hardship/desperation) no choice at all (coercion/trafficking).

I am pretty sure that for child soldiers in many parts of the world there is very little choice but I expect every now and again a child will somehow sign up to be a child soldier through choice.

Re "Those women choose to do it and you and I can't stop them.* Maybe we can, maybe society will change so drastically in the future that the idea that any woman would choose to prostitute herself in any way would be unthinkable. If I can bring that about I would. assuming that will not be the future suggests we know something we just can't. If you had said to people in the middle ages how society will be now, they would have laughed in your face and drowned you as a witch! I just hope it doesn't take 500 years!!!

Re "I only ever want to ensure they are safe, through regulations if necessary." Regulation may help for some areas and may not for others. Suppose 50 years ago we said that it was actually not OK to beat our children in school with canes (as once was much more common) but because we knew it was going on and we felt we could not stop it, and maybe some boys/girls actually did not mind being beaten with canes, so the best way to ensure that children were safe would be to regulate it, and once they had been beaten cold compresses could be applied?

Regulation may well be a good thing, and I hope one day that the situation would be that no woman (girl, man or boy) was ever required to fuck for money. (Sorry don't usually swear but feel strongly).

But it is good to hear different opinions and different ways to tackle this, I do feel many, many of us want the best for these girls and women, we are just working out how to get it.

Unfortunately the media is extremely powerful. Page 3 and the Kardashians, in my opinion, encourage an unhealthy aspiration of body image and how a woman/man can exploit it. I for one see sex more than celebrating intelligence.

I really am trying not to condone it, I was simply clarifying some women have chosen this path. I have no solution on how to stop the sex trade so suggested a model like Amsterdam could be used to aid safety and penalise those that exploit.

Of course your points are valid. I agree with them. We can not compare exploitation to choice but I'm not sure 'how' you or I can stop people choosing to sell their bodies.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It's very difficult to articulate over the Internet. What can be done?

I couldn't finish that article but thank you for posting.
I'm scared for my dds with this later in their lives but I will be strongly intervening when they are pre teen.
As an aside I really notice the difference between dp (not faintly interested in porn or porn culture) and exh (thinks it's harmless). Exh seemed utterly confused and dissatisfied by sex as he seemed to think it was about 'getting her to do x and y' regardless of whether this produced heightened pleasure or not.

Those women choose to do it and you and I can't stop them.

No, but we can make sure that they can get out once they notice that it is not good for them.

I know you only want what is best Peyia. absolutely, I don't know the answers. I think awareness helps. I don't think softer laws on porn or prostitution will help women. Empowering women, challenging attitudes it all helps. I personally feel we will get there. I really do.

Claraoswald36 Re "I couldn't finish that article but thank you for posting". I don;t read bits I don;t want to read, you don;t need every grisly details to get the gist.

I'm scared for my dds with this later in their lives but I will be strongly intervening when they are pre teen.* well done for getting aware.

VestalVirgin re "...we can make sure that they can get out once they notice that it is not good for them." That's a really good point, exit strategies for women caught up in the 'sex industry'.

Empowering women, challenging attitudes it all helps - Agreed!

On that note of empowerment and changing attitudes I think it's about time we had a female PM to encourage this or a male that sees a female as his equal

Agreed!

I just had to comment. In in my mid 20s and some of the things I and my friends have experienced during relationships and or sex are awful. (And illegal too)

One friend had a guy refuse to stop as he was hurting her because he wanted to finish..

One was choked during sex with no warning.

Asking to cum on your face or slap you isn't unheard of either.

I was filmed without my knowledge or consent.

I've other friends who have experienced similar in terms of "expectation" such as anal being a given, nude photos being expected etc etc.

I do believe it is directly influenced by porn.

I tried to get both friends to contact the police btw but neither wanted to

I think one of those instances actually counts as rape too but o felt I didn't want to push too much as she maybe doesn't feel that way.

Notrevealingmyidentity thanks for trying to help your friends. I wish more and more young women (and older ones would learn they don't need to live up to men's expectations in this area). It is difficult and maybe scary too if you fear being overpowered.

I think it is important to talk to friends and say that whatever men might 'expect' or think they are entitled to, they are not entitled to use women's bodies without consent.

This is very helpful to share.

Your friend was raped but it is sometimes hard for women to admit that this has happened. Just be there for your friends and spread the word.

There are other threads on here about this issue, please read up and make yourself aware of these challenges, you are the next generation of young women.

Are you a mum?

When you are a mum (if you ever are/if you are not yet) you will feel just as passionately about the next generation. It is sometimes easier to care more about our daughters (and sons) than ourselves, but the danger with that is we do not get to pass on those 'messages' properly unless we pass on those actions (IMHO).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2612262-Sharing-about-harmful-effects-of-porn-in-a-thread-in-feminism

And there are some very interesting (and sad) comments on this thread too...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2610074-Anybody-up-for-a-general-chat-about-the-damaging-effects-of-porn-on-young-people?watched=1