rebranding TERF

[PosieReturningParker]

I want to rebrand TERF and have some ideas about alternatives.

3Fs. Feminism for females
FCF female centred feminism

And I'm going to use #DEW Don't Erase Women

Or DEF females

@CheeseMmmm

What do you mean it hasn't happened?

It demonstrably has here and more than once. And other inmates have been attacked. And even if not attacked. Saying communal showers are awful. The male inmate staring etc.

In California a well known civil rights org is taking a group/ woman to court to stop any data about males in women's estate being supplied.

Ok. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. That is awful and appalling for those women who Karen White preyed upon. So prisons need rethinking. I don’t know - special sections within prisons that house trans women or trans men? But other men regularly target vulnerable women- isn’t the anger on here about trans people (I see it a lot - that’s why I’m posting ) looking at a tiny minority of cases rather than being directed at a world in which 137 women die each day at the hands of a male partner?

It's not the same as the racist thing really because up until 5 mins ago it was accepted that males as a group are a risk to women and girls esp with sex offences and so that's why single sex spaces exist.

Now around the world there are orgs like UN with initiatives to improve access to single sex spaces.

Thinking about the racism thing though.

I have no doubt that plenty of black people are wary of white people esp in some circs eg white police.

As a woman I am wary of males in certain circs. Having one around in the bogs would ring alarm bells. I think it's obvious why. Those who say it's misandrist/ unfair etc. Are just being horrible IMO.

'Ok. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. That is awful and appalling for those women who Karen White preyed upon. So prisons need rethinking. I don’t know - special sections within prisons that house trans women or trans men? But other men regularly target vulnerable women- isn’t the anger on here about trans people (I see it a lot - that’s why I’m posting ) looking at a tiny minority of cases rather than being directed at a world in which 137 women die each day at the hands of a male partner?'

Sections for trans women in prison would be fine. Problem is that is not acceptable. It's othering. A law firm supported a TW inmate in taking a legal case making the argument that it was not fair. Against human rights.

You won't have heard of Barbie Kardashian I'm guessing? In Ireland.

@bordermidgebite

Accepting of what exactly ?

Because when being accepting means lesbians accepting dick , no I don't agree

Lesbians accepting dick? That’s abuse if someone coerces someone to sleep with them because otherwise they’re being discriminatory. In any situation.

The need to defend against intrusion by transwomen plays directly into defending women against abuse

The reason we have sex separation is partly to reduce opportunity

Once we remove single sex spaces , there is greater opportunity for violence against women

This is borne out in data ... google the difference in sexual assault in mixed and single sex changing rooms

Right but stonewall say lesbians are transphobic if they don't consider transwomen (with dicks) as potential partners

The anger is about-

Anyone declaring a certain gender ID must be treated as that gender at all times.

Disagreeing with this = hate, a desire to exterminate trans people etc. (Yes because women are well known for leading groups that want others rounded up and murdered... I mean. Come on).

The good news is if and when we are attacked. After the event it can be reported. And of course attacks on women and girls always get to court etc...!!??!!
Oh and. If that happens they weren't really trans anyway.

Males are hardly a low risk group when it comes to sexual coercion/ grooming/ pressure etc.

And have long fetishised lesbians.

Just saying.

So prisons need rethinking. I don’t know - special sections within prisons that house trans women or trans men?

This thinking would have you instantly branded a transphobe because of the oft repeated mantra that transwomen are women. And this isn't meant in a social sense but an actual literal one. Women's services are now mixed sex services. Stonewall have redefined the definition of homosexuality to be same gender attracted, rather than the actual definition which is same sex attracted. There was a fairly prominent article recently about how some lesbians are experiencing being coerced into sex they do not want because they are branded 'genital obsessed if they disagree.

I would consider all of these to be feminist issues. I also consider the horrific rates of women being killed each day to be a feminist issue. It is possible to be concerned about both.

And the hate is coming from one side. There is no GC equivalent of the website I linked above.

Goodies, can you seriously not see any circumstances in which the presence of someone clearly male would upset women and girls? Or do you automatically trust all men and expect all women to get over it?

@CheeseMmmm

'Ok. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. That is awful and appalling for those women who Karen White preyed upon. So prisons need rethinking. I don’t know - special sections within prisons that house trans women or trans men? But other men regularly target vulnerable women- isn’t the anger on here about trans people (I see it a lot - that’s why I’m posting ) looking at a tiny minority of cases rather than being directed at a world in which 137 women die each day at the hands of a male partner?'

Sections for trans women in prison would be fine. Problem is that is not acceptable. It's othering. A law firm supported a TW inmate in taking a legal case making the argument that it was not fair. Against human rights.

You won't have heard of Barbie Kardashian I'm guessing? In Ireland.

Just done my research. Aren’t these ‘trans’ women just men playing the system? Where’s the history of their struggles? The trans people I know have wrestled with feelings of identity for years. It’s not a ‘I’m going to wear a wig and fake boobs’ decision like Karen White. IMO these are criminals almost playing the mentally ill card that men used to play to avoid prison and choose a hospital for their sentence. I think we should realise that these criminals are tarnishing the true despair some trans people are in.

Barbie.

sputniknews.com/20200930/18-yo-irish-transsexual-barbie-kardashian-remanded-in-womens-jail-after-threatening-rape-1080613698.html

Don't know that site but it's factual.

I saw the original psych report before most stuff about BK was vanished from net.

This person is a bona fide extremely dangerous sociopath.

With their history both appalling abuse as a child and their criminal history and open desire to hurt and rape women. They should be in a secure MH hosp where they can get help and others can be protected.

BK expressed through lawyers a strong desire to be in women's prison. No shit Sherlock.

So, we have talked about prisons.

What about Women’s refuges and services for assisting rape victims? Are you aware that there are many women who need safe spaces away from any male (and yes, women can usually reliably tell who is male even those identifying as women)?

Are you aware how few these services are that exclude transitioned males even though they can by law?

Here is a live thread for example. But you can always look up Edinburgh rape crisis centre as well.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4399044-an-update-from-my-rape-crisis-service

The fact that the CEO, a transitioned male, left the SNP because of the vote for allowing rape victims to request an examiner by sex not gender. Whose interest what that CEO serving, certainly not females. Yet, there they are shaping the policy around victim support in Scotland.

How is this good for females? Specifics please. How is a person who has made clear their trans activism the centre of their life, who has call women who have expressed the need for choices for female only spaces bigots, specifically working for the needs of females?

www.thepensivequill.com/2020/10/barbie-kardashian-story-tusla-wants-to.html

Irish govt issued legal warnings to sites with info to take it all down.

All vanished for a while. Some back now.

Can you see why women are going on and on about this now?

Where’s the history of their struggles? The trans people I know have wrestled with feelings of identity for years. It’s not a ‘I’m going to wear a wig and fake boobs’ decision like Karen White. IMO these are criminals almost playing the mentally ill card that men used to play to avoid prison and choose a hospital for their sentence. I think we should realise that these criminals are tarnishing the true despair some trans people are in.

Please do tell us how we can tell between a nice transitioned male and one who isn’t?

@MistandMud

Goodies, can you seriously not see any circumstances in which the presence of someone clearly male would upset women and girls? Or do you automatically trust all men and expect all women to get over it?

I absolutely can see where women wouldn’t want to be in the company of men. I don’t trust all men at all. I don’t want women to get over being threatened or sexually assaulted at all. But I also don’t want to, as a feminist, fight with genuine trans people (rather than a tiny tiny minority who are predatory men who are pretending to be trans).

Gooders can I just say thank you for actually taking time to read the stuff presented to you.

@Helleofabore

Where’s the history of their struggles? The trans people I know have wrestled with feelings of identity for years. It’s not a ‘I’m going to wear a wig and fake boobs’ decision like Karen White. IMO these are criminals almost playing the mentally ill card that men used to play to avoid prison and choose a hospital for their sentence. I think we should realise that these criminals are tarnishing the true despair some trans people are in.

Please do tell us how we can tell between a nice transitioned male and one who isn’t?

If someone has transitioned properly, they wouldn’t have a penis. Wouldn’t they want to be female? Hormones, surgery… surely that shows body dysmorphia? That they long to be female because that’s what they believe they are

Well yes of course one could think they are men gaming it.

But there they are in women's prisons. No consultation. No evidence risk to women considered at all.

And if they say I'm a woman then the approach is they are one no questions asked.

That's the problem. And it's a big one.

It's not about trans people. It's about males. Who we all know can and will go to great lengths to access women and girls.

Trans women are women. Full stop.

That's the problem. That's the whole problem.

We're saying no to males in female things on their say so. We're on the back foot as everything was quietly opened up. And then women started to realise. And now we're angry and baffled. And told that feeling is pure hate.

Got to stop now. Thank you for engaging with me. And the links. I appreciate the debate.

Do you believe Gooders that females should be able to play sport in fair competitions and safely?

How do you propose that females have this with the current push for transitioned males to play against females?

Have you seen the research? Happy to link it all up for you. There is even trans led research that shows that transitioned males retain their physical advantages after they have gone through a testosterone driven puberty.

In many sports it is downright dangerous to have males competing.

How is this fair for females? At all?

@Whitefire

Gooders can I just say thank you for actually taking time to read the stuff presented to you.

You’re welcome. I really appreciate people taking time to send me the links.

The idea hormones/ surgery are any kind of requirement is transphobic sorry.

Also no requirement to change appearance.

Policing how women decide to look or dress is anti feminist. Some women have beards. A penis is just some skin. You're obsessed with genitals! Etc etc.

Thank you gooders I hope you found this interesting

Aren’t these ‘trans’ women just men playing the system? Where’s the history of their struggles?

Again, this would have you instantly branded a transphobe on places like Twitter. Stonewall's policy of 'acceptance without question' and the massive push by lobbying groups for self ID has seen to this.