rebranding TERF

[PosieReturningParker]

I want to rebrand TERF and have some ideas about alternatives.

3Fs. Feminism for females
FCF female centred feminism

And I'm going to use #DEW Don't Erase Women

Or DEF females

[Helleofabore]

If someone has transitioned properly, they wouldn’t have a penis. Wouldn’t they want to be female? Hormones, surgery… surely that shows body dysmorphia? That they long to be female because that’s what they believe they are

If they have their clothes on, how do you know?

Can I suggest that you read this thread below. All the way through. It has lots of great information and up to date links.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

[Gooders1105]

@CheeseMmmm

Well yes of course one could think they are men gaming it.

But there they are in women's prisons. No consultation. No evidence risk to women considered at all.

And if they say I'm a woman then the approach is they are one no questions asked.

That's the problem. And it's a big one.

It's not about trans people. It's about males. Who we all know can and will go to great lengths to access women and girls.

Trans women are women. Full stop.

That's the problem. That's the whole problem.

We're saying no to males in female things on their say so. We're on the back foot as everything was quietly opened up. And then women started to realise. And now we're angry and baffled. And told that feeling is pure hate.

I realise that. No absolutely- men abusing women is abhorrent. Angry women change the world - totally agree but I want to make sure that anger is directed in the right place. At the system that’s allowing men masquerading as women to abuse girls. Not at trans people in general.

[Gooders1105]

[quote Helleofabore]If someone has transitioned properly, they wouldn’t have a penis. Wouldn’t they want to be female? Hormones, surgery… surely that shows body dysmorphia? That they long to be female because that’s what they believe they are

If they have their clothes on, how do you know?

Can I suggest that you read this thread below. All the way through. It has lots of great information and up to date links.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me[/quote]
Will do. Thanks

[sharksarecool]

Its not quite the same thing, but I've recently been thinking that we should rebrand "Gender-Critical" as "Gender-Sceptical". A lot of people seem to misunderstand Gender Critical as being critical of people who are transgender rather than critical of the concept of gender itself. Gender Sceptical would avoid this confusion whilst also helping to convey the notion that gender ideology is a belief system.

[CheeseMmmm]

The label is irrelevant imo.

Gender in feminism always meant sex role/ stereotypes/ social or legal pressure to look behave etc a certain way according to sex.

Anyone who isn't horrible thinks that your sex should not result in being pushed into constraints due to it. Whether over or subtle. And that means for all women and girls around the world. And many large international orgs still define it that way. (While also using gender to mean sex and/ or internal gender ID... Which is of course a gift to those who want to conflate/ appropriate/ confuse...).

That is- or used to be- a mainstream view not just for feminists.

To use it as an insult is...?

But like I say it's not about the labels it's about the group being labelled.

[SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit]

I think TERF has been so over-used it has lost its sting.

It means I want to exclude transwomen from women’s prisons, women’s sports and women’s wards?

Damn right.

[Helleofabore]

@Gooders1105

This interview with Helen Joyce may also be interesting for you. It does cover a wide range of topics but certainly covers off some off the issues with considering transitioned males as being ‘just the same as any other woman to be supported by feminism’. And how it really is not like the gay movement that many people have been told to believe that it is like.

It is not a interviewer I know, and they come from an angle of explain this from the beginning. It is long, but worth listening to in segments of you have to break it down.

[MenoMom]

I first came across the term TERF when a very woke young relative told that I sounded like I was one and she was so shocked that I agreed that i was once she explained it to me. I think transwomen should be excluded from women only spaces and i get a kick out of being considered a radical anything when i'm a middle aged office worker. i own the term.

[remibagel]

I'm sorry but what the genuine fuck is wrong with you, 41% of trans people don't make it past 30. Trans women aren't taking your rights, men pretending to be trans are taking advantage of cis AND trans women. Don't pin this on us, pin this on cisgender men

[FebruaryRainandSleet]

‘41% of trans people don't make it past 30’

Source?

I think you’ve probably misread that.

[Goatsaregreat]

Welcome to Mumsnet remibagel and congratulations for finding this board. Any chance of some data to back up your allegation? We're quite keen on facts, data and reasoned argument on here as we discuss women's rights and child safeguarding.

[remibagel]

Yep! Thank you for asking! www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2021/05/19/terrible-time-for-trans-youth-new-survey-spotlights-suicide-spike---and-hope/
Heres a recent articale!

[sanluca]

But that article is self reported contemplation of suicide. So nothing about if they tried and if they did try, the attempt failed as they were alive and managed to fill in the survey. High numbers but all it indicates is that there is a group of transgender youth who have serious mental health problems they need support with, which is being said all along.

So where does the statistic come from that 40% don't make it past 30. Not this article.

[teawamutu]

@remibagel

Yep! Thank you for asking! www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2021/05/19/terrible-time-for-trans-youth-new-survey-spotlights-suicide-spike---and-hope/
Heres a recent articale!

Dawn Ennis =\= objective, researched or factual.

[Hasselhoffsheadband]

41% of trans people don't make it past 30

You're gonna have to source that one honey.

Are you talking worldwide? UK? Are you talking about suicide or murder?

Trans women aren't taking your rights, men pretending to be trans are taking advantage of cis AND trans women

So you disagree with self id as well then?

[Datun]

Trans women aren't taking your rights, men pretending to be trans are taking advantage

What's the difference?

One set of men say they are women and want to enter women's spaces. And the other set of men say exactly the same.

[FlibbertyGiblets]

Oh a new poster has come to berate us using false stats about suicide, I don't know why they always weaponise these bobbins stats.

[FlibbertyGiblets]

For the lurkers, remember that forced teaming is a Thing. I reject cis and will not be lumped in with transwomen thank you. TWATW.

[RoaringtoLangClegintheDark]

I’m sorry, but 41% of trans people don't make it past 30 is such utter, utter, transparent bollocks I’m sorely tempted to be a tad uncivil - could I permit myself a 😂, I wonder? Or even a 🤣?

remibagel welcome to MN where you will have the new and delicious experience of talking to women who won’t fall for your propaganda and misinformation, nor your attempts at manipulation and emotional blackmail, but who are incredibly well informed and aware of the stats and the reality of the situation under discussion, and will ping your nonsense right back at you in short order.

I’m sure you will benefit hugely from being here!

And btw, many women on MN have experience of an abusive ex using the “do what I want or I’ll kill myself” line as a form of coercive control. That’s right, threatening suicide as a means to get what you want is a form of emotional abuse.

Thought you might be interested.

[DontLikeCrumpets]

@StitchesInTime GC means critical of gender ideology

[Redshoeblueshoe]

I may have had several glasses of 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷
But surely the school holidays have not started already ?

[DontLikeCrumpets]

My suggestion is CAGI - Coalition Against Gender Ideology.

My reasons for this are as follows:

1. "coalition" acknowledges a wide range of people coming together to oppose gender ideology
   
   
2. Being cagi is catchy and perhaps its worth mentioning that ancient Greeks regarded caginess as a characteristic heroes possessed

[waterbabys]

Female centred feminism

[Helleofabore]

@remibagel

I'm sorry but what the genuine fuck is wrong with you, 41% of trans people don't make it past 30. Trans women aren't taking your rights, men pretending to be trans are taking advantage of cis AND trans women. Don't pin this on us, pin this on cisgender men

I have seen this article before. Maybe you would come back with some actual verified stats that is relevant to the UK. Because I wonder just how that stat bears up considering how many middle aged male transitioners there are in the UK.

If you are under the belief that this is true, it must be indeed stressful for you. Particularly if you are a very young person contemplating your future. Why would someone want to cause so much fear within their community ? If you have stats to prove it true in the Uk, I would be very shocked indeed.