teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

[GinAndSonic]

Article may upset some people. Saw this www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11554595/Pornography-has-changed-the-landscape-of-adolescence-beyond-all-recognition.html in chat and thought it was something important to discuss, in particular this about teenages and anal Sex - "Moreover, both genders expected males to find pleasure in the act whereas females were mostly expected to “endure the negative aspects such as pain or a damaged reputation”."

Im not surprised by this sadly, as i was anally raped by my boyfriend as a teen over 10 years ago and pornification is only getting worse. What can we do, other thab talk to our kids? Can we do anything on a bigger scale to fix the problem, not just try to help our kids survive the shit storm?

"Teenagers over the age of 16, are old enough to decide on the sexual activity they want to participate in."

Yeah, right.

If young people are growing up thinking as is a routine part of a sex life it completely changes the climate 'consent' is given in. Most teens want to be 'normal'. Porn has normalised as. So where's the environment where is ok to not want to do it?

Hakluyt in the eyes of the law they are, even if biologically they aren't done growing.

The poster who said that we need to teach enthusiastic consent whatever the act was spot on. I am also wondering if the difference between fact and fiction should be stressed a bit more, as people here seem to think that teens can't tell that difference.

"If young people are growing up thinking as is a routine part of a sex life it completely changes the climate 'consent' is given in. Most teens want to be 'normal'. Porn has normalised as. So where's the environment where is ok to not want to do it?"

This. I am so bloody angry with the "porn does no harm" brigade.

And those who are talking about anal sex if carefully and sensitively undertaken can give "exquisite pleasure"- have you seen the way it's depicted in the freely available porn we're talking about? Do you really think the teenagers who get their ideas about sex from them are going to spend hours carefully and lovingly and sensitively building up to penetration with the girl completely in control of what happens? Seriously?

And I have no problem at all with naming that stuff as "not normal".

Me too Hak. Porn seems to be hurting both the boys and the girls.

Yes Blackrider, the girls are at more physical risk, but I think the boys are also at emotional and psychological risk.
I only have girls, but it strikes me that the boys aren't in a good place either.

dadwashere I'm genuinely pleased your daughters don't tie their self esteem to social approval, but, as a teacher in a girls secondary school, my experience is that they are in the minority.

Following on from qumquat, I don't think it is "Bullshite and condacending disempowerment" to name a problem. I also don't think it is unreasonable for children's self-esteem to be tied in with social approval.

Presumably the same pressure to engage in anal sex is prevalent amongst gay boys too, as it also is quite common in their porn.

DadWasHere, do you think a man who doesn't work with young girls has more to say about girls' confidence than women who were young girls at one point and who now work with young girls? Really?

It is very telling DWH that you see fit to dismiss women's lived experience entirely. Disagree with it, certainly, but calling it "bullshite" as though we can't understand our own experiences betrays a staggering amount of male privilege on your part.

Can I confess I am more than a little baffled as to how this discussion seems to be stuck in the phase where we even lack consensus of this even being a problem.

The pornification of women, particularly young women is a definite thing. I can't quite fathom how this isn't obvious with even a cursory examination of society as it stands.

Kudos to anyone who has suggested better education, and tackling the problem head on. We don't tolerate sexually predatory behaviour from adults to children. I am not sure we should be tolerating it from within adolescent circles either.

Young women need to grow up feeling society is on their side and that their safety and well being is a priority. If we're not constantly reaffirming that message where else are they going to get it from?

Don't be baffled Dervel. Any time women try to say they have a problem with something they are ignored. It's part of the partriarchal society we live in. It is not new or different, it is something we experience all the fucking time.

"Bullshite and condacending disempowerment. This was not the lived reality of my daughters lives. They had their insecurities, as sons would have their own, but my daughters did not outsource their self esteem, they climbed the hill to claim it for themselves, nor were they alone in doing it."

I am very pleased that your daughters' experience was so much more positive than many of their contemporaries' . Why do you think that is?

Dervel on this very thread we have a man (DWH) saying what we as women have experienced is "bullshite." That's what men do all the time, they hear what we have to say and then dismiss it and claim that their experience is the truth, despite the fact that they are not women and have never actually experienced what we're talking about at all. And they then expect that to be listened to, and it is. So men get to dictate what women feel and think.

Also I'm not so sure female self esteem should be some complicated mountain to climb that needs to be earned. Self esteem should come as bog standard for all young people.

Agreed. But that is definitely not the case for women.

cali well I am very keen to listen and to learn. I hope you feel I am supportive of your position on this issue. I realise that's not an awful lot in the grand scheme of things, but you have it nonetheless.

That's all that's necessary Dervel, for men to finally listen and stop believing that they have exclusive access to reality. The whole self esteem thing is extremely complicated though and so many things would have to change for it to get any better. I distinctly remember as a child noticing that girls in stories didn't do anything. Then I picked up that actually girls' power was in how she looked and I got the message that women could manipulate men with their "feminine wiles." Then I realised those feminine wiles weren't anything real at all - men just ignored women when they wanted to or attacked them and blamed the "feminine wiles" for it. So I knew pretty quickly I was hemmed in on all sides. How to combat that? How to expect girls to have any sense of self when they are never given any power at all?