teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

[GinAndSonic]

Article may upset some people. Saw this www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11554595/Pornography-has-changed-the-landscape-of-adolescence-beyond-all-recognition.html in chat and thought it was something important to discuss, in particular this about teenages and anal Sex - "Moreover, both genders expected males to find pleasure in the act whereas females were mostly expected to “endure the negative aspects such as pain or a damaged reputation”."

Im not surprised by this sadly, as i was anally raped by my boyfriend as a teen over 10 years ago and pornification is only getting worse. What can we do, other thab talk to our kids? Can we do anything on a bigger scale to fix the problem, not just try to help our kids survive the shit storm?

As a mum of teen girls! I feel sick whenever I think of this.

I have had a brief conversation with my eldest but need to have a more in depth chat at some point! Its a real toughy - not because I am a prude about being so graphic, but its about being honest without putting your opinions and bias on what I consider to be right,normal or something I would be comfortable doing or uncomfortable doing!

This is one conversation I am finding hard to approach which surprises me because we are pretty frank and open about all sorts in our house,especially with my eldest (16).

Young women need to grow up feeling society is on their side and that their safety and well being is a priority. If we're not constantly reaffirming that message where else are they going to get it from?

Sadly, it is NOT the case that society is on women's side. So girls can't be raised thinking that their safety and well-being is a social priority: it isn't.

The best thing we can do is help them grow up to think that it's ok if they make their safety and well-being their own priority, and that they have, in themselves, the strength to get into many, many scraps throughout their lives in defense of their safety, and their well-being.

Teaching them to trust their gut. To state their boundaries. To say "no" and not feel bad about saying no. To hold their own when people demand things of them that they're not comfortable with.

Because they're going to get people trying to step over their boundaries ALL their life long, whether it's teenage boys expecting anal sex as their due, or any of the rest of the wealth of experiences society throws at girls and women.

Well said Goats. There is no point in telling young girls that the world we live in now cares about them as people, it doesn't. What they still get from the media and even from police advice is that they are to blame if anything happens to them (though thankfully the latest attempt the police made at blaming women for rape was withdrawn - some progress at least). So yes, developing an individual sense of boundaries is important.

The tough part is that as children get older they ignore parents and start to listen to peers and the media more and more. Combating messages from those quarters is incredibly hard.

My father served in the Navy, he volunteered at 16 and was sent away till his 18th birthday at the end of the second world war. So I was wondering if perhaps we should stop sending any military support to anywhere in the world we currently are.

So we can stop helping fight ISIS in Syria, let the women there be controlled by a bunch of lunatics who will no doubt use a rod no thicker than a finger to discipline their wives. And of course no help to places like the Congo where warlords hack woman apart after raping them and conscript children into their armies. I am sure America would agree the war of independence was stupid and personally I am rather grateful that Nelson gave the French a beating because I was always useless at French.

There will always be people (men) who want to rule, some tribal alpha male BS but you cannot unilaterally stop fighting as there will be people out there who would take advantage. There are rights and wrongs but I guess growing up at a time when the Falklands was a real issue and the first desert war these were my realities and having parents who were involved in the second world war my view is more about stopping megalomaniacs taking over.

I don't dispute that sausage. What I object to is the constant glorifying and memorialising of war. Shouldn't we as a species be ashamed that we kill each other in such numbers? Why are there monuments everywhere to killing and absolutely none to the giving of life?

Wars such as fighting ISIS in Syria are necessary due to male violence. Our constant problem is male violence. So why is nothing been done to tackle it?

There was a mra activist on This Morning earlier this week, he was in to discuss how the decline in people getting married is the fault of women. It became clear the more he spoke that he blamed women for a lot, and I think the problem was not so much the decline in marriage, but people declining to marry him.

At one point he said men have always had it tough and it's just getting tougher, he pointed out that men didn't always have the vote, that men were conscripted to war, and never mind the wage gap, what about the life expectancy gap, and as I watched I wondered why feminism was to blame for that? women were not stopping all men having a legal right to vote, women were not conscripting men to go fight, and women don't make men die at a younger age so why the anger and blaming towards them?

I'm going off thread, it was just the war comments reminded me, I'll try start a new thread with a vid link if I get time later.

Women and only women do something amazing - they grow new humans and put themselves at great risk to do so. And all we ever hear about it is what the new thing is we can't eat, how fat or thin pregnant celebrities look and how mothers are failing in so many ways. How about for a second saying "wow, isn't it fucking amazing that women do this for the world?" Just for a bloody second.

Ok, it is amazing, but I do not see the particular connection and I find your idea flawed, I would prefer to see a woman defined by what comes out of her mouth (or keyboard) than what comes out of her vagina. Around 10% of women discover they are infertile (as did my close relative and two long-time friends) and the invoking of motherhood, while indeed an achievement, is decidedly unhelpful to them. Other women simply choose not to have children, like my previous partner, but suffer social disdain chiefly from other women, being seen as somehow aberrant in their choice, which is something sections of feminism agitate to overcome. Then there are the women who simply do not enjoy being mothers who rack themselves with private guilt but stay silent lest they be racked with public guilt, deadbeat dads have it easy in comparison. That is the danger of invoking the universality of womens experiences like a rallying cry (or mens for that matter), its often quite a breadth of conflicting individual experiences and attitudes.

We commemorate wars when millions of us (thankfully) have never experienced war. However, every single one of us is here because a woman risked her life to grow us and give birth to us. It is entirely universal.

For every single one of the billions of people on this planet there is a woman who spent months of her life in danger, discomfort and worry to grow them. Every single person put a woman in danger to be born. It is amazing that women do that, that they give up their bodily autonomy, and their safety to carry on the human race.

I don't understand the idea that because some people can't do something we can't celebrate it. Does that mean we stop the Olympics because some people can't be olympic athletes? By your reasoning all WWII commemorations should be torn down DWH because plenty of women wanted to fight but weren't allowed to.

Also there is massive irony that you say "I would prefer to see a woman defined by what comes out of her mouth" when you're dismissing everything women are saying here. Is it the case that you want to see women defined by what you decide they should be defined as?

Child-free by choice, here, and let me take this opportunity to express my heartfelt gratitude to you, Dad, because I am just so nose-blowingly thankful to finally have a man speak out for me! How else could my experiences hold any meaning? Without your voice, Dad, I am speechless, formless, I am smoke in the wind, I am as nothing. If only I were capable of appreciating the pain and sacrifice women go through to give birth, while at the same time being able to commit to my own personal decision not to put myself through that. But alas, women are a hive-mind, feminism can only envision exactly one definition of what it means to be a woman, and it's up to men, yet again, to point out that, yes, NAWALT.

'every hole is a goal' That is really awful, Superexcited (I know its not your expression). It makes me want to cry that it is even a thing.

Loving your work on this thread cailin.

We are something to be conquered. Says it all really.

I think that's a slightly separate although valid point dad.

The point being made was that childbirth etc are huge. often traumatic endeavours undertaken by women (sometimes unwillingly. Courage and tenacity is required.) But this is not fit for discussion in polite society whereas the lauding of male heroics (battles, Senna etc) is absolutely the stuff of our culture, our media and our society.

The fact that some women cannot or do not give birth is a whole other issue and I completely agree that a saintly version of motherhood can be fetishized in an unhealthy way to the detriment of childfree women.

But saying that not all women give birth is just the same as saying that not all men go to war (in fact most don't). And almost no men become famous racing car drivers. That doesn't stop our society lauding those achievements and remaining almost completely silent on women's daily experience. By the way, in case there was any doubt, saintly motherhood is not most women's daily experience.

I said nothing at all about motherhood, saintly or otherwise. I talked about pregnancy and giving birth, which is a necessary part of every human being on the planet on is undertaken, in every case, by a woman. It is incredibly risky, especially in developing countries, inconvenient, uncomfortable and the end of it can be and often is excruciatingly painful and highly dangerous. And women do it, all the time. And it's treated like a mundane thing, which it is not.

I'd never thought of it that way Cailin, you're so right. Not only is it treated like a mundane thing, it's often treated like an inconvenience.

Re self esteem: I am 36 and my self esteem is still massively linked to social approval, even Facebook likes on occasion I am now going to try and feel good about myself today because I have given birth! (Sorry for self helpy tangent)

'every hole is a goal' That is really awful, Superexcited (I know its not your expression). It makes me want to cry that it is even a thing.

Yes, I agree that it is awful. I don't know if it is just a phrase used by Northerners but it is very common up here. I hope I can educate my sons to not use such phrases or to view women as something to be sexually conquered. Hopefully by educating them and my husband setting good examples (which he always does) I can raise my boys to be decent men who respect women and themselves.

im from the north east and ive heard "any holes a goal" since i was a teen. Im 28, so its been a thing for a good while now.