teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

[GinAndSonic]

Article may upset some people. Saw this www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11554595/Pornography-has-changed-the-landscape-of-adolescence-beyond-all-recognition.html in chat and thought it was something important to discuss, in particular this about teenages and anal Sex - "Moreover, both genders expected males to find pleasure in the act whereas females were mostly expected to “endure the negative aspects such as pain or a damaged reputation”."

Im not surprised by this sadly, as i was anally raped by my boyfriend as a teen over 10 years ago and pornification is only getting worse. What can we do, other thab talk to our kids? Can we do anything on a bigger scale to fix the problem, not just try to help our kids survive the shit storm?

And frankly I find it extraordinary that anyone thinks it's only feminists and radio 4 listeners who think inexperienced teenagers should probably not try anal intercourse, and thqt teenage girls should definitely not be pressurised into trying it.

Lurcio having read your analogy, I read "prude shaming" as "prune shaming"

But on the actual topic of the thread - agree the whole thing is deeply depressing. This has nothing to do with teenage girls' developing sexuality and learning what they want for themselves and everything to do with their developing servility.

How fucking depressing. I don't think we have moved on at all.

and who the hell do these vile little boys think they are forcing girls to do stuff????

I have daughters and I swear I would hunt down any little shit who hurt any of them in this way

utterly vile (and I speak as someone who thinks anal is fine in a consenting ADULT relationship)

Can't see anyone arguing that teenage girls should be pressurised into anal sex..... Just that they shouldn't be pressurised into ANYTHING sexual and demonising anal sex as "not normal" is not a helpful attitude, indeed can be seen as quite an insulting/shaming one

I will discuss this with my sons when they are older.

I think porn has ruined sexual relationships for a lot of people. It's become so degrading.

When I was young, sex was quite vanilla and you became more adventurous as you got older and more experienced. It think it's really sad that young people are now expected to act like a porn star when they first meet somebody and they have to pretend that they enjoy it.

This is appalling. A reminder to talk to our sons and daughters about these important issues. Not to shy away from them, much as I might want to!

think porn has ruined sexual relationships for a lot of people. It's become so degrading...When I was young, sex was quite vanilla and you became more adventurous as you got older and more experienced. It think it's really sad that young people are now expected to act like a porn star when they first meet somebody and they have to pretend that they enjoy it.

^^ this

mind you when I grew up (90s) it was pressure to do blow jobs and regular sex

BUT if you did it you were a slag

if you didn't do it you were "frigid"

I always remember how I lost my virginity, 14 to a boy who was pretty nasty to me really. he dumped me after and told everyone I was shit in bed

tangent but I really do worry for my daughters as it seems its even worse now

Children's brains don't finish developing until they are in their mid twenties. A highly nuanced, theoretical message about consent and no judgement is politically correct, but doesn't help them much. Everyone sites the need for more education, and criticises what passes for education at the moment. What should that education actually be. What exactly should we say to them that they will comprehend and be useful to them?

I personally like this idea
m.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/02/lets-talk-about-sexin-english-class/385135/

Pandora, please don't compare female genital mutulation with consenting adults enjoying sex, that's ridiculous. And noone 'designed' my body, thank you, so please stop judging people who enjoy sexual practices different to your own. eh? I do not believe I have judged you personally oneday I really couldn't give a shiney shit what consenting fully developed adults do to each other. I do care what our society considers 'normal' and 'ok' for young people to be doing though. I care very much when acts cause girls to end up in A&E.

Oh and I will liken anal sexual coercion with this issue to FGM as these are both acts that damage girls for the pleasure of men.

Love that Billy Collins poem Spring

I agree that nuance and advice to use judgment doesn't help children much. My children are too young at the moment but I plan on laying out some clear rules about what is acceptable in our house and I will be doing all I can to make it clear that porn does not have a routine place in our house. I actually don't mind them going out to seek it but having it pumped in here 24/7 is not ok. I'm hoping to send the message that people don't have sex 24/7! So nor should they think that 24/7 access to porn is ok.

When I was a child, if you wanted to see porn you had to get on your bike and cycle to the shop and go through the embarrassment of the top shelf and the lady in the shop catching your eye. All that is no bad thing. You don't have to be ashamed of sex but it also shouldn't be something that is like the air around you so that you don't even have to think about how to access it.

I think the question of whether or not anal is "normal" sex is a bit of a red herring. I am happy to believe that anal sex an be done properly, safely and painlessly and can be pleasurable for both partners. But that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that teenage boys are awarding each other points for sexual coercion and rape. And that's what's fucked up - whatever the sex act happens to be.

I sent the link to my DD (18) at Uni- she read it with some friends and their consensus was that the article was accurate, but nothing new . Deeply depressing!

When she was at school, 6 boys were suspended for grabbing and commenting on girl's breasts (fortunately DD was not assaulted). Apparently it had been going on for months and none of the girls involved had reported it as they didn't want to be labelled frigid by the boys. These were all intelligent and educated young people.

IMO we've gone backwards from my teens in the 70s and extreme porn, now readily available, is a major factor,

How much is all the resulting faecal incontinence issues which result from anal sex going to cost the NHS?

It could be a bigger thing than obesity is currently.

Having heard women who have been in prostitution talking about this issue, I don't find it funny Jane.

It was 'the bigger thing' I found funny.
I agree faecal incontinence wouldn't be much fun!
However this risk is not explained to young adults.

And anyone who thinks porn does no harm should read this thread
Is it really that different to the pressure I remember for girls to give blow jobs? Or go all the way? All the lines were the same 30 years ago - 'You would if you loved me', 'All the girls do it', 'It's only because I love you so much' etc etc etc
There has always been pressure on girls from boys.

The argument about anal sex causing incontinence is just wrong. Hospitals are not full of gay men who have received decades of anal sex and have ended up incontinent.
It can cause damage if done forcefully, but that is abusive/rape anyway.

Comparing it to FGM is absurd. That is permanent barbaric mutilation of young girls who have no choice in the matter, as opposed to a sexual practice that many men and women enjoy consensually, but you don't happen to approve of.

It's not going to help if the adults around them just tell them that anal is wrong and they shouldn't do it. They don't generally look for their parents approval in this area. Go back a couple of generations and parents told their children that pre-marital sex was wrong - it didn't stop teenagers doing it.

Teenagers over the age of 16, are old enough to decide on the sexual activity they want to participate in. We need to equip them with the skills and confidence they need, to ensure they are able to know what THEY want to do and convey that assertively and respectfully to their partners.

The argument about anal sex causing incontinence is just wrong

So the doctor quoted in the article is telling lies then?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1293903/

This research does not appear to agree with you either,

grimble certainly the info I've had from such sites agree with the link you've posted. I really do think there will be serious repercussions with healthcare in the foreseeable future for those individuals who regularly engage in anal sex.

The argument about anal sex causing incontinence is just wrong. Hospitals are not full of gay men who have received decades of anal sex and have ended up incontinent.

Why would the doctor in the article about the causes of the incontinence and injuries of the girls she has seen?

What consenting adults do is up to them I agree, I don't have any strong views on anal either way, what I'm worried about is the pressure being out on girls to replicate what's happening in porn. If the boys are seeing how anal is performed from porn, it's not usually done in a way that makes sure the female is comfortable, it's done aggressively, it doesn't show you how to do it safely, so I think it's not surprising the doctor in the article is seeing such injuries in young girl.

It's not just teenagers over 16 this affects, lots of girls under the age of consent are put under pressure for either sex or things they don't want to do. I think there's a different type of pressure to when I was younger. Eg if a boyfriend threatened to tell everyone I was frigid/slag when I was a teenager, then he would have to put effort in and go and find my friends and tell them, he would have been easier to ignore too, wheras now, thanks to social media, it can spread much further and quicker in a few minutes.

How to improve sex ed:

Teach students about enthusiastic consent. Whatever the sex act, it should be pleasurable to both partners.

It would be hard to implement though, because what you're telling teens is that sex is (or at least should be) an enjoyable thing to do. Most parents (I imagine) don't really want schools telling teens how good sex is.

"You don’t have to spend long with an insecure teenage girl (is there any other kind?) to work out that her happiness is tremulously yoked to the getting of Likes or little lovehearts on Facebook or Instagram."

Bullshite and condacending disempowerment. This was not the lived reality of my daughters lives. They had their insecurities, as sons would have their own, but my daughters did not outsource their self esteem, they climbed the hill to claim it for themselves, nor were they alone in doing it.

"I think the question of whether or not anal is "normal" sex is a bit of a red herring. I am happy to believe that anal sex an be done properly, safely and painlessly and can be pleasurable for both partners. But that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that teenage boys are awarding each other points for sexual coercion and rape. And that's what's fucked up - whatever the sex act happens to be."

I agree with uglyswan here.

This was already happening when I was a teenager 15 years ago

Wrt anal sex I mean

"And anyone who thinks porn does no harm should read this thread
Is it really that different to the pressure I remember for girls to give blow jobs? Or go all the way? All the lines were the same 30 years ago - 'You would if you loved me', 'All the girls do it', 'It's only because I love you so much' etc etc etc
There has always been pressure on girls from boys."

Only very recently have they been able to back up their point by showing examples on their phones.