Men who fantasise about rape (Trigger?)

[alicemalice]

Hope I don't trigger anyone with this thread.

I've been online dating for a bit and chatting to this guy who I seemed to have a lot in common with.

Looking at his answers on Okcupid, there's one that said 'Do you have fantasies about rape?' to which he replied, yes.

This really bothers me. I understand it's not real and I suspect rape fantasies are quite common. But still, I find it very off-putting.

I also find it odd that he answered it so publicly.

Are rape fantasies so common they're seen as fairly normal?

You could argue that there is actually no 'being raped' fantasies possible. Because I am 'consenting' by fantasizing about it. IYSWIM. I have given consent, mentally, by deciding to think about it. I know that, in my own head, I want to do what I'm doing.

In the the case of men thinking about raping someone, unless they are mentally assuming that the woman involved, 'really wants it' a really, really dangerous thought they ARE fantasizing about rape.

It's not the same to me at all.

I agree Flora Fox. The idea that women get off on submission is a spurious one. It's probably often the only role within the paradigm they've got. You either submit or your a slut. It's a rotten, narrow choice.

^^ yes I was thinking about a case where a group of men got off because the woman had told one of them online something that wasn't what they did anyway.

If a man said he had rape fantasies and a woman men him and he raped her, no way on earth would anything happen unless he killed her I think.

See what you're saying MrsTerrorPratchett. Obviously not everyone with a rape fantasy is going to rape. Ye equally, you could say not everyone with a paedophiliac fantasy is going to molest children. But what if a man asked a woman to dress up as a schoolgirl or act out an incest fantasy? Even though it involves consenting adults, would it still not be deeply dodgy?

Surely, anyone who is fantasising about raping his partner (because that is what we are talking about), is a bit iffy to put it mildly.

I think it's a bit simplistic to say there's fantasy and there's reality and the two can be neatly separated.

I wonder about the prevalence of submissive fantasies amongst women (not that I have any stats!) and wonder if there is a lack of alternatives presented in terms of "non standard" sexual dynamics for want of a better term.

I suspect that men and boys have much more opportunity to explore options although again mainstream stuff is all about men being dominant isn't it.

What a state of affairs.

Lots of men ask females to dress up as schoolgirls, that is mainstream.

Most women will tell you that street harrassment etc started for them while they were schoolgirls and for many of them those were the worst years for it.

Bottom line is a fair number of men are attracted to girls about 12 and over, and of them there are enough around acting on it to mean that most women will have had something dodgy happen while they were in school uniform.

This is an interesting article by Sheila Jeffreys called Eroticising Women's Subordination (4 pages). I think it's somewhat relevant here.

www.mediafire.com/?f5t3dxwc0nf6c78

There's also this (7 pages):

www.mediafire.com/?6lcyid9dchi5bdi

It's an essay by Dorchen Leidholtd from The Sexual Liberals and the Attack on Feminism published in 1990.

These were written nearly 25 years ago and I think we are seeing the realisation of the concerns they were talking about.

Exhaustive, readily accessible pornography has probably got a lot to do with the way women are being increasing represented as some sort of sex class. It's misogynist, emotionally limited, culturally backward and propogates the notion that sexual aggression is somehow normal. Anyone who dares suggest that endless videos and pictures of women being degraded, humiliated, dressed up as schoolgirls and having their faces ejaculated on is perhaps not a great leap forward for humanity is accused of being prudish or authoritarian. It's truly bizarre.

You won't get any argument from me on that Joe.

I find it really disturbing that what once (always probably!) have been activities enjoyed between consenting grown-ups after they had worked out what their preferences were during the course of a sexual career

Is now being presented, in one single variant (male dominant / aggressive / violent, female submissive / passive / assaulted) to children as "this is how you do sex"

I am the non-standard sexual dynamic, Seven.

I can't rape, I don't have a penis, but I think I've made my feelings on rape abundantly clear - no one ever should stick their penis where it's not welcome. Or do anything else sexually that isn't consented to. SSC - Safe Sane and Consensual.

So akin to the typical female rape fantasy, but not to actual rape. That's what I would assume. Although the waters are muddied somewhat here in Canada by Jian Ghomeshi and his insistence that he is into BDSM rather than just a nasty abuser.

I would consider myself the lowest of the utter low if I ever did anything that wasn't consensual. I'm a control freak - control is my kink, I can manifest it in a myriad of ways, but it's all about the control and the power for me. I'm well aware that I'm a headfuck and I tread carefully. I'm not exploitative. But some of my fantasies are extreme and would scare the shit out of a "normal" person.

But I wouldn't put them on OK Cupid. And I'd never be on OK Cupid because I'm not really suited to that kind of dating.

Jian Ghomeshi is a nasty abusive fuck who is using BDSSM as an excuse to divert attention from the fact that he's an abuser.

I think this is a pretty cogent argument:

www.xojane.com/issues/im-a-sex-negative-feminist

It may be a BDSSM fantasy, but it isn't BDSSM. If you get me.

women are being increasing represented as some sort of sex class

Women have always been some sort of sex class. The media proliferation may be connected with the fact that the law no longer says we are. Or not - it may also be connected with the equally useless lie that men want more sex than they can get.

The 'willing surrender' fantasy's more like what happened in James Bond films, where the pretesting woman melted under his magic kiss, than proper rape. But I don't think a man who tells potential dates he has rape fantasies is thinking of himself as Bond! I'm inclined to think he's covering his guilt in advance :(

Sorry yes my language was clumsy - but it may be a fantasy within a BDSSM context in the same way that a vanilla fantasy may be submission or coerced sex. I don't know if people really have those, I don't, so I can't comment. But I'm thinking more of Garlic's James Bond than anything remotely realistic.

BDSM raises interesting questions. Of course it's a consensual power dynamic, but a power dynamic nonetheless - and one that's unarguably been assimilated from a wider culture of power.

I'm not against anyone who engages in it, but as I say it's not unproblematic. Coming from a male perspective, I'd be willing to give lots of things a go to make a partner sexually happy. But if a lover asked me to dominate them or call them a slut, I think I'd be emotionally and politically quite uncomfortable with that.

Power - and it's relinquishment - is at the heart of sexual psychology, but someone getting off on expressing contempt or being treated with contempt is a different matter though - even if it is consensual. I suppose in BDSM men are submissive as well as women, which can make it more a more equitable exchange of power.

But it's sometime hard to know exactly where the line should be drawn between a misogynist fantasy and equitable BDSM.