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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Depressing report - anal sex in under 18s

358 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/08/2014 17:45

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996.full

The link goes into much more detail but the gist is:

"First, some men's narratives suggested that mutuality and consent for anal sex were not always a priority for them. Interviewees often spoke casually about penetration where women were likely to be hurt or coerced (“you can rip 'em if you try and force anal sex”; “you just keep going till they get fed up and let you do it anyway”), suggesting that not only do they expect coercion to be part of anal sex (in general, even if not for themselves personally), but that many of them accept or at least do not explicitly challenge it. Some events, particularly the ‘accidental’ penetration reported by some interviewees, were ambiguous in terms of whether or not they would be classed as rape (ie, non-consensual penetration), but we know from Jack's interview that ‘accidents’ may happen on purpose.

Second, women being badgered for anal sex appears to be considered normal.

Third, the commonly circulating ideas that ‘everyone’ enjoys it, and that women who do not are either flawed or simply keeping their enjoyment secret, help support the erroneous idea that a man pushing for anal sex is simply ‘persuading’ his partner to do something that ‘most girls would like’. Even Alicia's narrative contains some of the apparently coercive features of anal sex that other women report in negative terms, despite Alicia reporting enjoying anal sex.

Fourth, anal sex today appears to be a marker of (hetero)sexual achievement or experience, particularly for men.18 The society which our interviewees inhabit seems to reward men for sexual experience per se (‘every hole's a goal’) and, to some extent, rewards women for compliance with sexually ‘adventurous’ acts (enjoyment signifying not being naive, unrelaxed, etc), although women must balance this with the risk to their reputation. Women may also be under pressure to appear to enjoy or choose certain sexual practices: Gill describes a ‘postfeminist sensibility’ in contemporary media, where women are expected to present themselves as having chosen behaviours that conform to a stereotype of heterosexual male fantasy.24 The common portrayal of anal heterosex in terms of men breaking women's resistance can be compared with narratives about first vaginal intercourse25 and perhaps have superseded them to some degree in the British context where premarital vaginal intercourse is considered normal and so perhaps less of a ‘conquest’.

Fifth, many men do not express concern about possible pain for women, viewing it as inevitable. Less painful techniques (such as slower penetration) were rarely discussed."

OP posts:
FairPhyllis · 20/08/2014 22:09

puppymouse That is horrendous, I am so sorry that happened to you.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:10

puppymouse Thanks

EverythingCounts · 20/08/2014 22:13

Just horrible and depressing.

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 22:14

Sorry that thing about pulling hair was an observation, not a question for puppy.

Just re-read and it didn't look right.

HolidayPackingIsHardWork · 20/08/2014 22:14

puppymouse Sad Flowers

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:16

www.details.com/sex-relationships/sex-and-other-releases/200707/anal-sex-new-deal-breaker

I was looking up statistics for women since I was shocked to see only a 1.3 of gay men are bothering with sex and found this article. It's fucking vile but makes for interesting reading, I think it could be triggering so I want to make sure anyone who clicks it is aware of that though.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:24

1/3 not 1.3

CaptChaos · 20/08/2014 22:24

I suspect there will be page after page about how it is society's fault

That might just be because it is. Centuries of the whole of society being geared to men's needs, men's wants, men's desires had finally led to a rape culture, where women are always lying and porn culture, where women have to be up for anything all the time in every hole and in every conceivable fashion or they are frigid and ridiculous.

Educating boys about consent was mentioned further upthread, telling girls more about it as well. But education on consent only goes as far as the bedroom door really. Porn has shown boys that girls are lying if they say no, that, while anal sex hurts, girls secretly love it and just need to be persuaded.

Anal sex carries risks far greater than vaginal sex or oral sex. Vaginal sex rarely causes fecal incontinence, anal sex often does if practiced often enough, so I hope you're keeping up with your PFEs most, or in the not too distant, you'll be crapping yourself, literally. Boys who know it's going to hurt, really aren't going to give a shit if it actually does, so maybe some educational pictures for both girls and boys showing such delights as anal fissures, complete rectal prolapse and even some incomplete ones might put them off. Telling them the risks of rectal tears might be good as well, you can get some truly amazing infections from them.

Making them watch one of the documentaries exposing the real porn industry would probably be educational as well.

None of this is going to make a shred of difference though really is it? Because this isn't about girls being all lovely and enjoying anal sex in a consensual relationship setting, this is about boys doing something they know will hurt at girls they don't really give a shit about about. It's male violence. It's entitlement. So tell me, in your lovely sex positive life, how do we combat male violence? By having anal sex with them? Or will we have to go as far as fisting now?

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 22:25

and I assume you didn't mean to say they aren't bothering with sex either Grin

I like the idea that only 1.3 gay men bother with sex but I find it a bit unlikely!

CaptChaos · 20/08/2014 22:30

Dear lord, that article is hideous Sad

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:32

and I assume you didn't mean to say they aren't bothering with sex either

Not till they've been married a few years! adds that to the baddum tish thread

Sorry obviously meant anal sex.

FloraFox · 20/08/2014 22:33

CaptChaos that's the thing, isn't it? If we don't address the underlying issue of male entitlement and violence, fisting will be next, then something else, then something else. I've already seen so-called feminists talking on twitter about being fisted (cos they is cool, right?). Bleurgh. Once this becomes the norm, there will need to be a new boundary to be violated to satisfy the need for domination and entitlement.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:35

If we don't address the underlying issue of male entitlement and violence, fisting will be next, then something else, then something else.

Rosebudding has got quite a lot of mainstream media lately.

There's probably a "right way" of doing that too though.

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 22:36

But isn't part of the point of it that it will hurt. It's about male dominance isn't it? In porn you have hair pulling, slapping, anal, blow jobs way down the throat etc as a matter of course. In average everyday standard porn. When you watch it, it is men doing stuff to women and part of the point of it is that they may well not be enjoying it, it may well be uncomfortable or painful. The women don't generally look like they're enjoying it, it's not a mutual give and take. That's not what's shown at all. And that is what is being replicated in teenager's bedrooms.

Like I said earlier, not seen huge amounts of porn, but know what is the bog-standard offering on the front page of the most famous sites, which is where children will be ending up when they google "porn".

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 22:37
WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:37

Women are basically blowup dolls in most heterosexual porn.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:38

Fuck me woman don't you know anything?

Never google.

JustTheRightBullets · 20/08/2014 22:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 20/08/2014 22:38

It's kind of about consent and education in that it would help if girls felt more confident about saying no and that that is a viable option where possibly the boy pressuring them is under pressure himself etc a little wake-up call can be useful for those who are mostly good but carried away with what porn is telling them, iykwim.

But you can't really get away from the rape culture side of the responses.

An increase in the number of people who are okay enough with being rapists to admit to it is a horrifying thing that won't be solved by the above.

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 22:38

Hmm. I expect we should be providing information to schoolchildren on that one so they get it right. they need to know the right sort of things to do beforehand to be able to do that successfully.

AlpacaYourThings · 20/08/2014 22:39

"For most of my friends, it's sort of a domination thing," says John (not his real name), 30, a writer in New York. "[It's] basically getting someone in a position where they're most vulnerable. My friends enjoy that and they tell their friends they did it. But it's not like girls are ready for it—it's something they do when they're really drunk."

"There's an erotic undercurrent about being in control of a situation," says Edward Ratush, a psychiatrist and sex therapist in New York. "It's a very ego-focused thing for the guy."

"I had a girlfriend who I was with for a long time and she wasn't into it," Albert says. "There was definitely a thing in the back of my head like, 'I can't marry her.' How can I, knowing I can't go to all the places I can go with her? The physicality of it, being painful or whatever, shows how comfortable the girl is with you." Here, he pointedly stops short of romanticizing screwing a woman rectally. "Ideally, every girl is a disgusting pig who wants it," he says. "But only with you."

Fucking hell, that article is depressing.

Liking it because women are vulnerable

Liking it because they feel in control

Women are disgusting pigs

Shock [anger]

It's just like my 'friend' said; if he can have anal with a girl, he knows he 'owns' her.

JustTheRightBullets · 20/08/2014 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:42

Or the man who managed to have anal sex with the woman on the first date (though she'd never done it before) and then did it for months because it wasn't emotional.

SO the fact that she had never chosen to do it before says to me she probably wasn't that in to it. But hey he has to get his rocks off. But he also needs her to know he doesn't love her.

WhatWitchcraftIsThis · 20/08/2014 22:43

I'm sure it is just a porn thing for now bullets. ANd I'm sure porn "stars" are totally empowered and not coerced at all :(

AlpacaYourThings · 20/08/2014 22:43

So depressing, WhatWitch I really am nervous for the ext generation of girls. If this is what it's like now, what on earth will it be like in 10-20years time?!