Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

When did MNHQ put in a radical feminist section? I missed that. I remember people arguing against having 'feminist activism' and 'feminist theory', though, because it just waters down this section.

It didn't last very long and was around the time that they set up the feminist support/feminist theory categories. The activism category was before then along with the book club.

OK I've started a radical feminism thread. Wasn't sure what people wanted to focus on so I've made it quite wide. I am sure it will meander or get taken over by trolls.

It was after the Great FWR Section Wars and a (temporary, and completely ignored) symptom of how utterly MNHQ don't really get feminism vis a vis Mumsnet.

Crass summary:

General whiners: "we like feminism but some of the feminists are too feminist! WE don't like going to FWR and being told that certain ideas aren't feminist. We are women so we should be indulged wrt to whatever we think is feminist. Choice etc."
FWR posters "well it does get a bit boring that there isn't a section of the site which takes any feminist basics as given."
MNHQ: "Ok there can be the main FWR section where you have to be indulgent and agreeable to everyone, even MRA trolls, and we'll make another section for people who are really over doing it and rather unseemly - we'll call it radical feminism"
FWR posters: "That's not what radical feminism is"

[ignored]
[section gets set up no one posts in it]
[section gets changed to "theory" for no clear reason. Still hardly anyone posts in it, partly because no one is up themselves enough to be all "oh yah look at me I am doing super duper clever theory not just chat". Also because there was no reason to hive off the too-too-feminist in the first place, which is what the whole thing was initially about]
[life goes on]

I love that summary.

MNHQ also made the assumption that theory and general chat, can be separated. Feminism has always been about women talking about their real life experiences, and then relating that to more general theory. You can't separate the two.

I suppose they renamed it because no one was posting on the radical feminist board. But nobody posted on the theory board either.

"Great FWR Section Wars"

Just had a look at the other boards (I usually forget they are there). Tumbleweeds were blowing through. I agree with calmet you can't separate theory and experience.

MNHQ also made the assumption that theory and general chat, can be separated

Which is nonsensical. Feminism is politics, it's ideology, it is a specific way of looking at the world and analysing society. What's left if you take the theory out of it? 'It's not faaaiiir'?

I honestly really dislike people who come over to FWR and then don't want posters here to be at all political about anything. No one goes over to the Dog House thread and demands a change of subject to alpacas, do they?

I do love the description The Great FWR Section Wars. Marvellous.

Tbf, we have a Category whereas Politics is just in the Other Stuff category.

Hello!

Going to take a day off after working like mad last week. But a first please.

Hello!

coming up.

I am just watching Great British Menu, which has the unprecedented sight of two female chefs talking. It does irritate me how male-dominated it is.

Everything is male-dominated. Women are fine cooking at home, but for being chefs you need leadership!

I mean political in its broadest sense.

Yep.

Depressing.

denzel - YY, I agree.

I don't think so Kim. I tried eHarmony a while ago (just before I found dp on Match.com actually) and they only had 2 matches for me within my fairly wide search area (I thought 40 mile radius was pretty wide area). Neither of those 2 matches were even vaguely what I was looking for, I specifically asked for someone fairly well educated and who was happy for me to have dd already, one of the matches had left school at 16 with few GCSEs and was long-term unemployed (nothing wrong with that but not for me as an NQT and a single parent) and the other was absolutely certain he didn't want to date a woman with children (so why the hell did they match him with me?!) Hopefully you'll meet someone lovely who appreciates you for who you are.

May I ask you all a question please? How do you deal with family you otherwise love (and can't really get remove from our life) who express views that are in absolute contrast with your beliefs and moral compass? It's bad enough that my step-brother is a member of Britain First, at least he lives far far away so I only see him every few years but their crap keeps coming up on my FB feed and that enrages me.

And then there's my mother, a Daily-Mail-reading garden variety bigot who sat on our bed ranting on about how immigrants are ruining this country. DH is an immigrant. Not even an EU one - he's proper forrin'. But "Oh no, I don't mean you, at least you're here to actually work and can speak English!"

But the one that should enrage you the most, given the forum upon which I am posting, came from my brother on the same morning as Mother-dear's channelling of Nigel Farage. I have gone double-barrelled recently, I took my unmarried name back. Now keep in mind, this is also DB's surname, so I imagined he'd be pleased. However, when I told him, he said, "Are you kidding? I'd never let my wife pull any shit like that. My name would have to be the important one to her. It's a man's world, you know, and nothing is going to change that".

This coming on the heels of him laughing his ass off last year and using the same "it's a man's world and the sooner you accept that the better" line when I told him to please stop spouting sexist bullshit around my DDs as I am raising them to believe they can achieve anything, regardless of gender.

Now, I would end a friendship with someone with views like that even if they were otherwise lovely, but this is my one and only brother, (not to mention my racist mother) and my family is very thin on the ground so I value who I have. Apart from rolling my eyes and ignoring it, (can't argue back, they just laugh) or cutting them out of my life, can anyone suggest any coping mechanism?

Gah. My sympathy.

Is it possible to say to him you're really upset, or would he laugh it off? He doesn't necessarily need to believe what you believe, but if he's basically compassionate he should be able to accept you are hurt by this, even if he thinks you are wrong.

He really would laugh it off, and thinks he's doing me a favour my setting my silly woman brain straight. I think next time I'll tell him that if he can't keep his offensive opinions to himself he won't be welcome back in my house. I just won't have my DDs hearing that shit from someone they love and respect - I can't risk them believing it.

And another rant (while I'm at it), a friend just posted a "joke" about tasering husbands on FB. I called her up on it, pointing out that domestic violence isn't funn against women or men. As, you know, most of we feminists believe. But sure as eggs is eggs, next time a discussion on violence against women pops up on 'tinternet there will be loads of men whining about how feminists "laugh about violence against men" and don't stick up for them. Even though we do. And they don't.

Gah!

Annie, that's exactly what I told DP's father - he's welcome to visit his granddaughter, so long as he keeps a lid on the sexism while he's here. I don't want her exposed to that crap from someone who's supposed to love her. So he doesn't visit (and doubtless complains to anyone who'll listen about the evil feminist keeping him from his daughter). Must be harder when it's your own family though. Are you prepared to stop seeing your brother over this?

I have no clue how to deal with relatives like that. My mother, who also channels NF at any given moment tells me that I know nothing about issues I am passionately involved in from feminism to anti-vivisection because.... I am too young and she has been around a lot longer. She tells me that by being bright and not hiding it, I am 'emasculating' my DH, I should always defer to him in all things, even if it's something I know more about. She also asks my DBro for advice about everything, without realising that half the time he calls me and asks me and then gets back to her. He's a high powered lawyer, but fully admits that he knows bugger all about DIY, hiring workmen, car maintenance, all sorts of other 'practical' things. Drives us both insane. Her brother tends to greet me with, "have you got over that lefty feminism crap yet" every time we see him, so I don't see him. The fact that I am looking at going back into therapy for my childhood probably isn't helping.

Annie I have no advice, just a hand for you to hold, because it sucks utter shit to be given these horrible messages by people who are supposed be on your side.

Sorry to hear about that Annie. But .... at least it is out there? You know what you are dealing with, when people are that blunt? (tenuous grasping at straws)

I have no idea where children get all their sexist messages from. I pointed out to my daughter, when she was 4, and talking about drs being men and nurses being women, that she had never met a male doctor.