Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

I saw the apology. kim hope things get better for you.

Ah okay! No I didn't see your apology.

MNHQ have said it was deleted because of privacy

I saw the apology kim, I think it's good that you had the grace to apologise when you upset people. I hope you have some good support irl and that things settle down for you soon.

I didn't participate in either thread, but I saw the apology too Kim. I hope that you have some support in RL and that things improve for you soon. I also think you are strong to directly come on and admit you made a mistake - too many people on here and IRL brazen it out 'never apologise, never explain'.

Hope things are ok with you Kim. You could always start a thread to talk about things if that would help. You will get support, no one would ever hold previous disagreements against you.

On the radfem subject - I am reluctant to identify with it on a personal level, if that makes sense, as I am married, took my DH's name and am (mostly) a SAHM. However, I do agree with a large portion of the theory, mainly that a fundamental change in society has to come about for women to truly gain equality. Bollocks like quotas and Athena Swan well intentioned but pretty pointless and actually have the potential to be harmful in that they underline the idea that women are a minority (WE'RE NOT FFS! WE'RE HALF THE POPULATION!) and act as a sort of reassuring, smiley, "aren't we good to women" sticky plaster that does nothing to address the underlying misogyny that led to needing those initiatives in the first place.

I pretty much agree with or can relate to the radfem theory I've come across (and i don't claim to be an expert) which is quite precise and uncompromising. As opposed to what the trolls seem to think radical feminism is all about which mainly seem to consist of the fact that feminists recognise power and oppressive structures and dare to name it! However I don't live my life by radfem principles. I compromise quite a lot. I live with 3 males for a start!

Maybe we should start a thread about radfem theory and what people understand by it and the different aspects of it? Could be enlightening.

Sounds a good idea for a thread.

You can be married and be a radical feminist you know. Or you can agree with some radical feminist theory and not others bit.

Yes it was a bit tongue in cheek . I make plenty of other compromises though! I think we all do don't we? And yy to relating/agreeing with some & not others. I'm going to start a thread tomorrow. It'll be interesting just to see what people think is radfem theory if nothing else.

I'd be interested to read such a thread, definitely.

DP got a gentle verbal rebuke today, for referring to the football match on the Beeb as "girly football" in front of DD. Is there a name for a feminist subset that's known for its linguistic nitpicking? Because I'm definitely that sort of feminist.

I would like to see that thread, scallops. Though it will make me aware how badly read I am.

kim - hope you are ok. Second what penguins says.

I'm wondering about the marriage/SAHM thing and being a radfem. I mean ... surely we've gone beyond the idea that you have to be a career woman? I really hope we have. I know having the freedom to have a career is a huge thing, but that shouldn't mean work like raising children isn't work.

I'm not so sure about marriage. But, that said, I know an awful lot of women who clearly are radical feminists and are or have been married, even if those marriages were deeply unconventional. FFS, Andrea Dworkin was married twice (once to ab abusive dick, and once to a gay man - they supported each other).

I do think marriage as it stands is a patriarchial institution, but we live in the world, we're not recluses.

And , stormy, I am with you there.

Hello.
Can I drop into the pub? I'd like to register an interest in the reading thread. And I also want to shelter from other areas of mn. I'm a bit ... surprised by the tone of a lot of responses across the board. Is it just me or is it a lot less feminist out there these days?

Actually, that's a bit disingenuous because I've already asked another poster the same question ... but I'm a bit shell-shocked tonight, to be honest.

As for RadFem - I'm an official RadFem fail: I went for a job at Onlywomen press years ago and didn't get it. And there is a story to go with that but I'm too worried about losing my cloak of anonymity to tell it in full.

I love the idea of a virtual reading group.

Welcome in.

I've not been on much tonight, but I think at times it can be unpleasant.

You're not a radfem fail for not getting a job! If that were true I'd be pushed into MRA territory for the number I've failed to get.

I had tried to get SGM back to do a reading group, but I think she's decided against it. I'd love it, though, whoever does it.

There are radical feminist reading groups on facebook.

Radical feminist is a name to describe a set of beliefs. I think it would be pretty hard to believe in radical feminism and for it to have no impact on how you live your life. But we all have to live in this world. And the point isn't about how individual radical feminists live their life. Whether you are married or not, does not help other women who are badly oppressed by men. It is activism to try and change things for all women, taht has the real impact.

Andrea Dworkin married for a second time to get access to health insurance in the US. She married John Stoltenberg who she lived with, a gay man. She believed marriage was an oppressive institution. But she had poor health and needed medical treatment she couldn't afford. We all make compromises.

I always like reading the feminist section of MN and have learned a lot from it. I don't really know if I'm radical or liberal. I don't think of myself as academic, as in I am not an academic, but I have been educated to a high level and I can follow the intellectual theory that is posted on here, although I think I relate better to concepts when they are discussed from a more "experience" based point of view.

The last couple of weeks, in particualr, I have found very interesting and it has made me want to post more - but I'm aware (painfully aware after the TERF thread!!) that I don't always have enough knowledge to post. Am very grateful to everyone else though, thank you.

Yes, sorry, possibly it wasn't obvious from my post before that Dworkin's second marriage to a gay man was also non-sexual on her side!

But absolutely.

rosabud - You don't need to decide. You can just be a feminist with your own range of views.

But I think a thread about what radical feminism actually is, and what people think it is, would be interesting.

Ok ... someone please start this thread! Seems we all want it.

I will in the morning. Promise! Too tired now defending some poor woman putting her children's needs above her arse of a husband (who is still put out months later as if that isn't a big enough clue to his fuckwittery)

And breathe.

Oh, that sounds depressing.

But will look forward to the thread.

Hello everyone

I get annoyed with radical feminism being treated as if it means "feminists we don't like" or "grumpy women" or "very feminist" or "just taking it too far, come on now". It isn't about extremity it is about style and content of your thought. (And I got VERY pissed off when MNHQ made this mistake and invented a section called "radical feminism" which they clearly thought meant "very feminist indeed, to the extent that they are rather unsavoury, and nobody likes them, so let's put them over there and no one need ever see them")

ok is there another thread on this? have more to say so will go and have a look

thecatfromjapan, has it got worse out there? I am not sure that I ever expected mn in general to be a bastion of feminism on some issues - though it is gloriously and instinctively woman-centric on some things, on others, like housework, it can be enraging ("oh come on just do the washing up, is washing up a few cups worth breaking up a family?" Well if not then why can't he wash them, and then the family can stay together!)

Hope you are ok thecat

And everyone else! Have a good feminist day

Yes MNHQ made a mistake creating that section. All the radical feminists on the board argued against it. So not surprising it was never used.

Stormy I am totally that sort of feminist... :o Had some daft person trying to explain/dismiss the X-Men film to DD as 'a boy's film' last week.

After I'd prised my eyebrows out from my hairline I re-explained it as a superhero movie FOR EVERYONE that had quite a few female superheroes in it...

(Don't get me started on the girly football thing)