This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

Honey

Sorry,

Damned phone. Honey, I think you're going through the very painful process of realising that no matter how much you better your life you will still be at risk of rank misogyny
simply because you are female. It is hard to stomach.

“'You need to ask yourself why childcare is not valued as work Honey. Who decided that bringing up the next generation didn't need paying?'

there are plenty of women on mumsnet that love nothing more than berating poor women that 'get paid' (in the form of benefits) for childcare.”

And er, do those women rule the world Honey? Did they set up the economic system which devalues the work traditionally done by women? Are they the ones with the power to change it?

You are so determined to blame women on Mumsnet because some of them are arseholes, that it’s stopping you from being rational about how to approach analysis. To say nothing of the injured, hurt, angry tone of your posts, lashing out and not caring who else might be injured, hurt or angry because of your words. Someone’s obviously really pissed you off and you still feel bad about something and I’m sorry for that, but you might find a more constructive way of dealing with that, than coming on a thread in the feminist section and berating everyone here because of the way we choose to oppose the socio economic system set up by rich white men and making ridiculous, classist assumptions about our backgrounds and experiences and attributing to us ideas and attitudes none of us hold. You have no idea what social class any of us are, what our experiences are, how vulnerable or not we are or were. And yet you've set yourself up as some kind of ranting, self-righteous judge of people you don't know - it's embarrassing behaviour.

Sexism is real, no matter how rich you are. A black man is president of the most powerful nation on earth, so are you going to argue that racism is no longer a problem? Because it is. No matter how rich you are, your money won't protect you from structural hatreds. Yes it can cushion you a bit and nobody sensible would argue that poorer black people are not far more vulnerable to the worst effects of racism than those who are cushioned by their wealth, but it would be utterly offensive to argue that because wealth cushions you, that means you're not affected by racism. And yet that's what you're arguing about sexism, like some kind of wanky brocialist.

^I read this yesterday. Might interest some of you t.co/6JyOAu7tIX^

I can summarise that article.
Poor lonely little romantic murderer! Don't involve feminism in this! I don't understand what "rape culture" means or pretend not to!

Wanted to add this article to the debate- it's about how being a member of the PUA community may have affected him.

prospect.org/article/how-pick-artist-philosophy-and-its-more-misogynist-backlash-shaped-mind-alleged-killer

I feel like banging my head on a brick wall, because of all the people who keep saying (and this is in RL), "but how can it be misogyny when he killed more men than women?"

They're blatantly ignoring his manifesto and videos, where his hatred for women was perfectly clear to anyone with more than half a brain cell, and it's only by the swift actions of the emergency services - and perhaps some luck and a bit of fate - that there weren't more victims (female and male).

Part of me believes, these people are willfully ignorant, as they don't want to accept there is something fundamentally wrong with parts of society.

Thanks Scarlet
I think PUA's are dangerous because they promote themselves as dating experts, so insecure previously non-sexist young men might be influenced by them. Then they teach things like how to isolate a woman and pressure her into sex. Really scary.

I liked your shark pic, Officer
Hopefully the discussion can actually continue now.

Tess Yes why are people so blind when it comes to seeing male violence against women as a specific pattern in society and as a hate crime? This was a crime motivated by hatred of a particular group. Women.
When it's other cases of a member of one group being violent and prejudiced against the other, people aren't usually THAT blind even if there are deniers.

The reason he didn't manage to kill more women was simply because, on a scale of mass murderers, he was actually a bit shit and the cops got to him before he could massacre some more

It is that simple

'I said "women are vulnerable". And if you think being middle class stops a woman from being vulnerable then frankly your ignorance is shocking.'

Yes women as a group are vulnerable, I'm sure some middle class women are vulnerable too but are they vulnerable as a group? No, I would not say so. The reason women as a group are vulnerable is largely down to the fact most of them are poor.

What we should ask ourselves is, why are poor women 3 times more likely to be raped and abused than better off women?

There must be a reason for this other than misogyny. Part of it is likely due to the fact a poor woman doesn't have the resources to get away from abuse. Therefore we should be looking at providing women with these resources and it may prevent a lot of the abuse to women, something I'm sure is the aim of any feminist?

'And er, do those women rule the world Honey? Did they set up the economic system which devalues the work traditionally done by women? Are they the ones with the power to change it?'

No, but 'hard working' middle class people DO have a collective voice and have had an influence on this countries recent policies and also the media annihilation of poor mothers on benefits actually came about due to bitter better off people bemoaning the fact they get council houses, benefits etc.

'Spewing a load of stuff from her own experience - without ever considering that women on these threads may actually have their own experiences too. Many women who are regular posters on GWR are rape victims/domestic violence victims. exited prostitutes...'

I have barely mentioning my experiences on this thread and infact havn't mentioned any specific one. My comments have all regarded discussions on Mumsnet with other posters.

No one ever said there wern't posters on here who had had bad experiences.

'"but how can it be misogyny when he killed more men than women?"'

Well this is a stupid logical fallacy. It was already pointed out that he appeared to just kill everyone in his way regardless of who it was, but he was obviously drawn to do this mostly by misogyny. The guy was a misogynist, no one can deny that.

'
You are so determined to blame women on Mumsnet because some of them are arseholes, that it’s stopping you from being rational about how to approach analysis. To say nothing of the injured, hurt, angry tone of your posts, lashing out and not caring who else might be injured, hurt or angry because of your words. '

Can this possibly be serious? Are you seriously trying to compare years of DV, rape, prostitution etc (things I am apparently 'injured, hurt and angry' because of ?) with someone disagreeing with a post on a forum?

Or do you mean that it hurts posters just as much as if that happened to them to hear the mere fact that middle class women are not as at risk of abuse as poorer women?

Why's that, because they can't dwell in victim-dom and martyr-land as much after hearing the facts?

If so that is fucking pathetic.

'You have no idea what social class any of us are, what our experiences are, how vulnerable or not we are or were.'

I never said I did. I never picked out any specific poster and told them I know what social class they are from or anything about their life. I stated that from my experience most women on Mumsnet and most UK feminists are middle class. I stated if anyone has any proof this is not the case then to show it me, otherwise I will carry on believing what I can see with my own eyes.

This is not me saying I know anything specific about any particular poster on this thread. Again, give over trying to put words in my mouth.

No that's not what I mean Honey, but I'm not going to engage with you anymore as you are clearly intent only on derailing this thread.

If you want to discuss feminism and class, please start a new thread.

Stop deliberately derailing this one, it's disrespectful and manipulative.

'However, you also need to accept other women's lived experiences on here should be taken seriously too.'

Where have I not accepted this? Again, I havnt stated anything about any particular poster.

'You are not the only woman to have ever experienced these things. '

Well no, you don't say.....you actually sound like a misogynist there trying to minimise women's experiences because it happens 'to loads of other women aswell'....Disgusting for an apparent feminist.

Disrespectful to who, Elliot Rodger??!!

Why would I start a thread about it on here when its clear as daylight the majority of 'feminists' on this board would rather sweep the issue of poor women being 3 times more likely to be abused under the carpet....likely because it doesn't affect them due to their affluence and they want to carry on with the helpless martyr, victim mentality mindset.

Derail derail derail.

anyfucker I think you're right. In terms of his manifesto, killing women was stage 2 after killing his flatmates. It just didn't go to his (evil) plan.

Why would I start a thread about it on here when I can just derail other threads where women are trying to have discussions?

Yes I agree with you Anyfucker.
The only reason he didn't kill more was because he was incompetent.

He was pretty successful at making a martyr of himself though. No cock ups (not a pun) there.