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Original poster

This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

470 replies

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/05/2014 18:01

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

OP posts:
vilacuwubi · 25/05/2014 03:22

I would be surprised if this happened in the UK (which I thought it was when I clicked). But then I saw it was the US- not surprised at all.

Shallishanti · 25/05/2014 12:57

he killed men too

ballsballsballs · 25/05/2014 13:07

Yes, he did.

I can't imagine how the victims' families are feeling.

AskBasil · 25/05/2014 13:21

He killed men whom he perceived as being more successful in gaining sexual access to women.

He killed men because of their position vis a vis women, which he contrasted with his own, not because of any intrinsic thing about them IYSWIM.

AICM · 25/05/2014 14:16

Just to point out he killed twice as many men as women. Not sure how the title of the thread, This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to, fits in with the facts.

Original poster
BriarRainbowshimmer · 25/05/2014 14:30

It fits with the murderer's motivation for his crime.

This was posted yesterday when all I knew was that he had shot "people", the new sites didn't specify female or male or both. Since he explicitly said that he wanted to murder women I assumed mostly female victims.

OP posts:
CaptChaos · 25/05/2014 15:47

Just to point out he killed twice as many men as women. Not sure how the title of the thread, This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to, fits in with the facts.

Yes, he stabbed 4 males in a flat, then shot 2 women and another man to death. Not too sure of the gender spread of the people he injured though.

This fits in with the title of the thread, because his stated purpose for his 'retribution' was that he hadn't had sex or even been kissed because women want bad guys and not lovely nice ones like him who murder people. His misogyny and male entitlement told him that if he had no access to women's bodies then there must be a major problem, which eventually led to him going on a murder spree.

ballsballsballs · 25/05/2014 15:59

This is a quote from the shooter's manifesto, while discussing his 'day of retribution': Women's rejection of me is a declaration of war, if it's war they want, then war they shall have.

That's misogyny, red in tooth and claw.

FloraFox · 25/05/2014 16:08

It's astonishing that a man can be so chrystal clear about his motivations for murder and yet people are denying those motivations.

ballsballsballs · 25/05/2014 16:14

He'd planned this in advance. Stage 1 was to kill his male housemates because they were getting sex. Stage 2 was to kill women. He would have liked to kill all women, and expresses his wish to put them all in a concentration camp and starve them while he watches.

So, not the least bit misogynistic.

CaptChaos · 25/05/2014 16:17

Yes, Flora because even when the misogyny is there shouting and waving there are too many people who want it not to be so.

He hated women.

He wanted retribution for his perceived rejection by 'hot' women.

He shot and stabbed a bunch of people.

A lot of them were men. But.....

He hated women.

AskBasil · 25/05/2014 20:53

Women are in huge denial about just how much (some) men hate us.

It's understandable, but misguided.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 25/05/2014 21:01

So, since your name is "Ask Basil" here's a big question for you ....

Why do some men hate women? I can understand men abusing women to both get women doing more things for them and to feel better about themselves by seeing themselves as superior to someone else - of course that dynamic is very sad and pathetic Sad in any relationship

But where does the hatred come from? It seems clear that some men do indeed hate women. Misogyny - hard to understand?

AskBasil · 25/05/2014 23:17

Blimey, now you're asking!

Why do men hate women?

I think that deserves a thread in its own right.

Lots of people think the original hatred was due to men's feeling of inadequacy and jealousy about not being able to give birth to children. Freud inverted this womb envy as penis envy. Later on this was overlaid with all the lies men told to justify their enslavement and dehumanisation of women, like women are crazy bitches, malevolent, liars, inferior, etc.

I'm not sure whether that's true or not and tbh I don't care. I don't care if men hate us or not, I just want them to stop killing us. And each other. And to stop preventing us from taking our rightful place in society as full human beings.

CaptChaos · 26/05/2014 00:23

Has anyone been looking at the #yesallwomen hashtag on Twitter? It's amazing and terrifying in equal measure. Many trolls, but more women and men speaking out against misogyny.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/05/2014 02:42

Fox News went so far as to blame 'homosexual impulses'. Because they obviously couldn't say that this young man had been told since childhood that rich, white men get to have a women to fuck, regardless of anything else. That he was entitled to one, that he had a BMW FGS and therefore deserved another human being at his command. I do believe that, along with his other issues, his belief that men get to own a woman was at the heart of this.

Poor, poor families of the victims. I keep thinking of the sorority women who didn't open their door and how they must feel.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/05/2014 05:54

“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
? Margaret Atwood

AskBasil · 26/05/2014 10:22

Bellejar on this

JustTheRightBullets · 26/05/2014 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 26/05/2014 13:46

Thanks Basil. I think the justification idea makes most sense to me.

Some men treat women badly because it suits them to do so. Then they come up with reasons to justify this to themselves such as women are crazy or inferior. They start believing what they are telling themselves and this leads to the hatred?

AskBasil · 26/05/2014 15:19

Yes I think so, in this sense it's circular and self-fulfilling.

Sometimes when you talk to nobbers, they have met awful women who have treated them badly.

This is of course, because decent women won't talk to them because they are nobbers.

So of course, the only women they ever have intimate relationships with are awful women.

So then they think women are awful. And so they behave like nobbers around women, so the only women who will countenance them are awful women because decent women won't talk to them....

And so the circle goes round.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/05/2014 18:08

If it wasn't so dangerous and frightening, it would be fascinating. Why do these mean, hateful and violent men seem to have a particular hatred of beautiful women? Why do they not understand that in a world where beauty is a commodity, they may not be 'rich' enough to buy it? There seems to be a particular kind of arrogance at play, often seen in Thailand and other sex tourism destinations, that men just by the fact of their existence, get to be with women who are beautiful, kind, loving, patient, expect nothing in bed, adore them, do everything for them. What do these men think they are bringing to the party except for their male privilege?

22honey · 26/05/2014 18:20

As a young woman (I am 23 soon) I have noticed a huge trend with 'young' men ie under 25s having a massive entitlement complex when it comes to getting sex and sex with the exact girls they would like also. It is like they truly believe that they are entitled to have sex and that it is really not fair if they arn't getting any.

I see regularly men online who self describe as 'young' stating their bitterness, anger and contempt that they apparently have no power in the dating game and that feminism has destroyed their chances of success with women (they are basically bemoaning the fact they no longer have control over women and their bodies and that women now are allowed to think their own thoughts and make their own choices).

I have no idea what has caused this but it could be down to a spoilt and overindulged mummy's boy upbringing, which leads to a sense of entitlement to everything else when the child hits adult life (ie attractive women, a good social life). It does seem a lot of mothers treat their sons like the sun shines out of their arse these days and a lot of children in general are spoilt and overindulged.

WhentheRed · 26/05/2014 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

22honey · 26/05/2014 18:30

MrsTerry the fact he couldn't get women had sod all to do with not being rich enough.

He was quite clearly a misogynistic narcissist but on top of that he had ASD which seriously affects emotional and social functioning, unless so mild as to be barely noticeable (and looking at him, it was not barely noticeable). I know there are different severities of it but I have a good friend with ASD who is similar to this guy in a lot of ways (disregarding the obvious, that he isnt a murderer, lol) and even if he was rich and 'good looking' I could never date or have sex with him.

Psycho sexually he is way way behind in development, despite being mid 20s he talks about women like a 10 year old discussing their latest pop crush except with very crude sexual innuendos thrown in, he just does not have the ability to offer a woman an emotionally, socially and mentally fulfilling relationship because he has such difficulties in these areas. Having sex with him would feel creepy and wrong to me because he appears to be not 'all there' and it would feel like I was taking advantage having sex with someone who emotionally and sexually comes across very very young and immature.

The vast majority of young girls are not going to want to date someone who cannot function socially or emotionally, and tbh money is not going to make up for any of this particularly with very young good looking women.

Sorry tried to explain as best I can but I dont think its helpful to refer to beauty as a 'commodity' that is something that can only be bought and suggest that the reason this guy couldn't get a girlfriend was because he wasn't rich enough.