The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

kickass Do you mean greens and grits together? I have not experienced that. I don't like grits or greens, which for the most part in the South means collard greens. But, of course, I have to have a bite on New Year's Day with the black-eyed peas for good luck.

I need to get back to work; I have a huge deadline looming that I have been avoiding by hanging out in the pub. See y'all later.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=data3.whicdn.com/images/21505011/5-MO5_large.jpg&imgrefurl=weheartit.com/entry/21505011&h=217&w=324&sz=18&tbnid=4w7phV7plrDD0M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=134&zoom=1&usg=__5TBhn9Dzhzl9Nfnmug3Mr_mIJqg=&docid=bCUG53ukYDdwUM&sa=X&ei=cfGpUt-wIcnfkgei9oGgAw&ved=0CC8Q9QEwAg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">I leave you with this.

Penguins I thought I couldn't do pastry until I discovered Dan Lepard. Dan knows home cooking like no other!

Scones at toning down me. Yes, I think I do that too. But I think I've done it too much. From now on they are going to get (nearly) the real me and they'd better be ready.

Dan Lepard? I'm willing to give anything a go. Thanks! Delia hasn't saved me, but maybe Dan can?

Penguins Sweet shortcrust pastry. Always works.

Dan does easy home cooking with that bit more oomph than Delia. He understands that we can simply buy these things but when we want to make them we want them nice as well as not too difficult. That's my interpretation.

I agree about family just seeing me as who I am but having to push myself a bit more for the outside world to see the real me. My dds are well aware that I am a strong independent woman with my own ideas and interests. Dd1 is regularly subjected to rants and engaged in debates about situations that I think need to be challenged. Dd2 is only 3 so she gets it at a slightly easier level.

I came on tonight specifically to rant about something that happened at work today. I overheard one of the girls in my form talking to her friend about one of the boys slapping her bum and touching her boobs at lunchtime yesterday. I asked her if she'd spoken to her head of year but she didn't think it was worth it I explained that she's always worth standing up for and I have spoken to the head of year who is dealing with the boy rather severely. I just feel so sad that this girl doesn't think it's wort complaining about being groped just because "that's what boys do" and she had to have 2 embarrassing conversations about it because HE thinks it's a bit of a laugh to grope her.

AntiJam I know of almost the same situation recently with grown women. They also thought it's not worth making a fuss about.

It's so sad isn't it. All the girls in the group thought it was awful but none of them were particularly surprised by it or thought it was bad enough to involve teachers. So the message the boys get is "this isn't a big deal and nobody will do anything about you groping us" when that's not what the girls are thinking at all, they just don't want the hassle and embarrassment of reporting it.

This may be total over-generalisation and not-well-thought-through, but I sometimes wonder how my boys would see me if I was more petite and more 'girly' than I am by inclination??
I live in trousers, I am physically quite strong, I have lots of interests that are not 'typically' female (whatever they are ), I don't have a high-pitched voice, I am in a professional job etc etc.

Having said that, they still see it as my automatic role to do the fucking laundry - they seem to have a blind-spot in that department...

Btw, I just initiated my registration for internet banking - I was talking with a group of friends recently how ridiculous it is that I have handed financial responsibility totally over to DH when we bought our first house together (18 years ago) - I am not entirely sure why? Joint account, both our salaries go in in their entirety, we both have equal access in terms of holes-in-the-wall, debit/credit card etc. but I never set up internet banking. So, now I am doing it - yah, me !

The groping is a tricky one - of course it should be reported but I totally see how a teenaged girl would not 'want to make a fuss' or be seen as a 'prude' or as having 'no sense of humour' by her peers.
Well done, for encouraging her.

Baking, hm.. I am assembling the Lidl gingerbread house kit tonight so it'll be ready for decorating at the weekend.

Pacifist I wonder the same thing too. I'm in a very male-dominated profession in a discipline that's traditionally male-dominated too. But I bake and cook.

I am male dominated profession, male dominated role, at home I can't/won't cook, or cut grass - my job is the toilets and the washing! I am v short and look 'girly'.

My husband looks 'manly', 6' 2" ex rugby player, but his job is mostly office based and he does all the cooking and ironing at home.

Our boys have seen me in action at work and they tell people 'mum fixes aeroplanes, dad answers phones'; for them, this is their 'normal' so I like to think that when they go out in the world they will continue to just accept that there are no 'roles' assigned due to gender.

Re the groping, the fact that you made it into an issue for her Anti means that hopefully more of the girls will recognise it as an issue. If there is a next time, they know that someone will take it seriously and back them up. Also the boys - they now know that it will not be tolerated and brushed away as 'banter' - it's sad and frustrating that this sort of thing still goes on though.

I just looked through the boots catalogue. I don't have DDs so never usually look at "toys for girls" (grr)

I want to cry. Why do even the My Little Pony toys now have giant eyes (why do all dolls for age 3+ have giant eyes, even??) with mascara and flowing hair? Yes, I know about Let Toys Be Toys but I normally buy at M&S or online so haven't been hit between the eyes with it before.

It is hideous, isn't it, TheDoctrine?

Thanks for the comments about the groping. I was sooooo angry with that boy for making one of the loveliest girls in the school feel bad about herself (not that I would have been less angry if she'd been a horrible, badly behaved girl really). She was embarrassed as it happened but then she was also embarrassed at having to speak to staff about it. She was very pleased that he was dealt with appropriately though, and she cheered me on (quietly after the lesson) when I told off the same boy about something completely unrelated during our lesson today. I'm hoping that he's learnt something about his behaviour towards girls and that the girls have learnt that we, as teachers, do not tolerate or expect them to tolerate behaviour like this from the boys and we deal with it as the serious problem it is.

It is hideous. I knew about Barbie and I vaguely knew about Bratz but there's Moxie Girlz and Winx Sirenex and Monster High and My Little Pony Equestrian Girl and they all have uh feasibly large eyes and platform boots and tiny skirts.

And I start thinking Barbie with her anatomically impossible physique wasn't so bad.

Yes it's depressing when we are at the stage where Barbies seem harmless.
Mildred mentioned them upthread and Santa is bringing them to my girls - Lottie dolls. Barbie sized but little girl shaped, they have outfits and accessories but it's gym outfits, complete with medals and things like that as well as naice dresses.

Sorry I disappeared and haven't caught up with reading the thread but I have to share this because it's making me all .

Review of the latest Agents of Shield episode from Hollywood Reporter.

Fuck yes you're being sexiest, you fucking sexist pig. It's in the 3rd to last paragraph if you have no desire to read the whole review. And totally negates the rest of the review.

The perennial "Christmas cards addressed to Mr and Mrs J Smith" thread has reared its ugly head. The attitudes and flocks of "but I'm proud to be married to him, why would I mind?" sheep are as depressing as ever Sigh.

Tangled. I like it, the romance is secondary, two main female characters and one male, Bechdel test pass but - again with the giant eyes!!! Men and women have the same sized eyes, animator folks!!!

tee - FWIW, that's what the thread's for, popping in and out. But yes: what a total prat. I love the way he clearly wants to wind up every woman reading with that line, too. Wanker.

I saw that last night Annie and then I turned off the computer and went to bed before I did something I would regret, I was already annoying dp by shouting at people on that thread . I HATE it when we get things addressed to Mr and Mrs J Smith. We are not married, if we were married I would not have taken his surname, and I most certainly would not have taken his first name as well!!! I have my own, perfectly good, name, I don't need or want to change it. I don't mind particularly when random relatives of his address us as X and Y Smith because I assume they just can't remember my surname in much the same way that I can't remember theirs, and my random relatives do it the opposite way round and address us as Y and X Didi because they know my name but not his. People who do know both our names, I expect them to use both names. I like my friend's way of addressing envelopes, she doesn't use any surnames at all, just the first names of the entire family, so that's what I'm adopting as my preferred form of address.

Doctrine I hate the huge eyes on any girl anywhere too. Dd2 is just hitting the Barbie stage and I'm really annoyed to find that Barbie is the least offensive doll that we can get in the shops we go into. Dd1 is thankfully past wanting to play with dolls but she is now into Manga and Anime, and the huge eyes with massive eyelashes is very much in evidence there too. At least they do huge eyes for everybody but the eyelashes are just for girls/women.

I actually have no problem being called Mrs X Surname.

But it's when y'all say things like "The attitudes and flocks of "but I'm proud to be married to him, why would I mind?" sheep are as depressing as ever Sigh." that makes me flee from the FWR boards.

I am proud to be married to him. Why should I mind?

No, I'm not chattel, he didn't buy me. He doesn't own me. I am still proud to be the wife of a wonderful man.

And I'm still a feminist.

Being addressed as Mrs anything-at-all give me the rage. I don't mind people not minding being addressed as Mrs X (or even being proud though I don't understand that) but I do mind people not minding that I do bloody mind. IYKWIM.

I think Upto has it. I'm not annoyed by the fact that other people are happy to be called Mr and Mrs J Smith, I AM annoyed by the insinuation that because you aren't bothered by it nobody else should be bothered by it either. Maybe we're guilty over here of doing the same thing in reverse, a sort of "this bothers us so it should bother everyone else too".

It is Annie's use of the word "sheep" that really caught my eye and gave me pause.

It would be nice if everyone could be respectful of others beliefs and ways of living.

I promise not to call you Mrs Upto.

I think there are sheep-types on both sides, we just don't see much of the other on MN. I know feminists who get very snarky in an 'oh, you can't be a feminist and change your name!' way, and I have a bit of an issue with that because it seems to be once again putting the blame on women rather than society - if you marry a man who comes out with 'oh, but I'd be so hurt if you didn't take my name,' yes, that's a warning sign but I should think we've all fallen for them.

What really pisses me off is when people get smug about it being 'correct etiquette'. Which is bollocks. Even Debretts acknowledges 'Mrs John Smith' is an old-fashioned option.