The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

[thisismyYuleTimenickname]

So in which way do you plan to be resolutely UNpleasant, LordCopper?

A new year already. I need to change my name again - don't know to what, yonis aren't trendy anymore so...

[AntiJamDidi]

I have back to work tomorrow syndrome too. I think I may join in with being UNpleasant. Should be easy seeing as I have raging pmt and a broken laptop as well.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

thisismyYuleTimenickname In every possible feminist way.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

That sounds a bit ambitious. What I mean is that I'm not going to accept dubious practices any more and I'm not going to be silent in the face of casual sexism by "nice" people and I'm going to make everyone uncomfortable if I have to.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

First UNpleasant thing done.

[youretoastmildred]

Can you share?

[AntiJamDidi]

Please share upto. I'm bored, bored, bored of being at work and I still have a parents evening to do. Please tell me tales of UNpleasantness to keep me entertained.

[thisismyYuleTimenickname]

Sounds good LordCopper! People make others uncomfortable when they make sexist comments. So why aren't those made uncomfortable by sexism allowed to make the others uncomfortable by saying it was sexist?

[AntiJamDidi]

I have a couple of annoying things to share today.

First one was on Saturday I was at my slimming world group and someone asked for the recipe for something I said I'd enjoyed. I replied that I'd have to ask dp as he does all the cooking. Every single woman (and it is mostly women that go to sw) there said something along the lines of "oh aren't you lucky to have a man that cooks?" or "I'd love my husband to cook for me". Now I don't think it should be that noteworthy that a man cooks dinner for the family. I don't know the circumstances of everybody there but the few I do know are all working and have partners who also work, same as me and dp, so why do none of those men cook?

Next one was talking to a friend yesterday. Her dh retired (early, he's only in his 50s) about 3 or 4 months ago, she's still working pt, and they have 2 dcs at home, one primary and one secondary. She mentioned that even though he's at home all the time he still hasn't cooked a single meal for the family, or vacuumed, or changed a bed, or done a load of washing, etc. So basically, he's retired and still leaving her to do all the housework as well as working. He doesn't even do the school run, the secondary age dc walks home and the primary age one still goes to a cm while she's at work. Now I know that that's just one relationship, but she just seems so conditioned to it that it made me really sad for her.

And just now while I was writing this someone asked me where my dds are while I'm staying at school for parents evening. Dp is doing pick-up tonight, he's perfectly capable seeing as he's their dad! (well, he's not really dd1's dad but she walks home herself anyway). Nobody has asked the male teachers where their dcs are, they are assumed to be with their mum.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Can't disclose details or I'll be outed.

But it's along the lines of challenging the everyday and not-so-everyday sexist comments. Basically what Yuletimenickname said. I'm not going to be the only person who is uncomfortable.

[PacificDogwood]

Well, I was rather irate with DH yesterday when I reversed out of our drive (think narrow, down-hill AND round-the-bend, so a bit complex, but I manage to negotiate it every day, sometimes several times WITHOUT ANY HELP AT ALL!!) in his precious car. I was half in, half out, when he started gesticulating and shouting. So, I stopped and put the window down thinking he had forgotten to tell me something or summat.
But no.
Apparently I was about to ram the wall.
Except I wasn't. Nowhere near.
But a argument debate needed to be had about it.

He had the good grace to apologise when I came back. And to be fair, he is not usually v precious about his car much as he loves and caresses it more than me and there is never any question about whether I am 'allowed' to drive it.

This was of course in front of witnesses, our friend, who was just leaving which was the whole reason why DH was out there in the first place.

So, yes, more Unpleasantness if clearly needed even in my own family sphere.

My biggest problem with causal, 'well-meant' sexism from 'nice' people is that I often only notice it after the event or am too gobsmacked to think of anything to say.

Note to self: work on quick comebacks.

[BelleCurve]

Evening all. Nice glass of dry white wine please bar sister.

I love MN. I was booking some tickets on the phone today and the guy says "what's your husband's name for the other ticket". It was actually for my mum and I thought how ridiculously heteronormative his assumption was.

Pre MN it would have just embarrassed me, but now I know why

[PacificDogwood]

That's not even just heteronormative, that's just plain stupid, Belle. Even heterosexual people have friends, siblings and other assorted hangers-on which might be of either sex. Stupid.


I've had so much to eat (not that much to drink, mind) over the holidays, I will never ever eat again. Much. .

[ThisSucks]

Please can I come in....it looks such fun!!! I have voddie hidden inside my boots!!!

(feverishly hoping I haven't walked into The Slaughterd Lamb...)

[MooncupGoddess]

You are very welcome, ThisSucks.

[TheDoctrineOf2014]

Just nipping on to raise a glass to Janet Yellen, who is replacing Ben Bernanke at the Fed, first female in the role.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I saw that! What an awesome bit of news.

And hi to thissucks. I may pass on the vodka right now, though.

belle - that's also playing to the 'you are your husband's PA' thing, isn't it? Though I think men get it when they buy something 'unmasculine' - it's assumed they're doing it under pressure from 'the wife'.

[DuskAndShiver]

• and also that women only attend social events suitably chaperoned by their appointed male keeper.

Hi! name changer here.

Feeling a bit sad... have been enjoying buying (or trying to buy - ordering and sending the majority back!) clothes this week, having talked myself into not minding my body and having a bit of fun with it.
There is a thread on S&B where a completely gorgeous woman has asked for advice to zhuzh up her work wardrobe. She has posted a pic of herself and she is, yes, completely gorgeous. So many of the posters who had helped her have said so, but there is still this tendency (in one post in particular) to regard her body, and her situation as a problem. Advice like "you could try x, but be careful" and stuff about tricky spots and how to manage them. It's sad. And has made me feel a bit of a twat thinking I could look nice. Sadface.
I have posted this here to get rid of it and to put me back in my feminist-inspired happy place with walking around in this perfectly functional body

[benid]

Hey duskand I don't often post but wanted to de-lurk to say don't feel sad. We are all totally fabulous whether or not we fit into the way other people would like us to look.

One of the things I have got from reading the FWR boards is that I feel more and more free from having to fit into a certain ideal.. hurrah and thanks to you all.

I totally agree that it's a happy place to be able to value a perfectly functional body rather than worry about whether it fits to someone else's standards of beauty.
See you all in the new pub when it opens

[Grennie]

Dusk I am sure you look great. Style and beauty is another world. I remember seeing a thread of new years resolutioms from there which involved a very strict health and beauty routine every day. Some of teh women there had been doing it already for over a year.

Don't judge yourself against some of the standards in style and beauty. Unless you are a supermodel, you won't live up to them

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I only go on style and beauty for the long winter coat threads. I have serious coat envy at moments.

but sitting at the swimming pool with a bad cough and achy joints while the kids swim, I don't feel very up to even coat threads...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Sorry to hear that upto.

I find the S&B threads very mixed - some are lovely and some people on there can be brilliant helping you find stuff. I agree with benid though - there's a very narrow ideal and it's nicer not having to live up to it.

[PenguinsDontEatKale]

Sorry you've had a rough day LordCopper.

I agree about S&B. There are some lovely women on there who, if you say "I am a size 14, have a budget of X and need a really warm winter coat for the school run/a sports swimsuit for a long body/maternity jeans that don't fall down" will instantly have lots of suggestions. However, I do find the 'if you are this shape don't wear this' and the body judgementalism trying at times (not from everyone I hasten to add. There are a few very loud repeat offenders trumpeting about size 12 being fat) and don't spend long there.

Pacific - Had that been me, I would have been about to ram the wall. I cannot reverse for toffee, despite being a competent driver generally. I hate that, it is such a female stereotype. I want to be marvellous. Sadly, I am not

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I have to admit, one of the things that never ceases to irritate me, about everywhere not just MN/MN S&B section is that people talk as if sizes have some kind of meaning so you can say 'oh, size 12 is definitely fat'.

If you think MN is bad, though, don't ever put your teenagers onto posting in The Student Room. It is utterly terrifying in there (though a great source of info on what students consider to be the flaws of the course, he he. ).

Anyway. This thread is now FULL, so here is the link to the new one: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1960057-The-Feminist-Pub-come-in-and-chat