The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

The best I can hope for is a school trip with 50 teenagers belonging to other people

One of the many, many reasons I could never be a teacher, Anti, seriously . You couldn't pay me enough...

I am quite fond of my own offspring though

Impostorism again. JUST BOOK THAT FLIGHT mildred. And quaff all that champaign for us.

And champagne too.

Have you got your tickets yet Mildred

Feminist Thought by Rosemarie Tong is a good overview, I think. The earlier version is available on kindle in the UK, I think, but there is an updated 2013 edition that I don't think is available on kindle yet in US or UK. There are more reviews on the Amazon US site.

Oh, I am the World's Worst Read Feminist - anybody with any faint whiff of an idea about feminist theory can wipe the floor with me.

I am too scared to read on the subject because I think it will make me angry and it will be bad for my health...

My approach to feminism is a bit like some people's approach to art: I don't know much about art, but I know what I like .

Tickets signed off. To be booked tomorrow with my passport number.
thank you all!

Thejoyfulpuddlejumper, there is a lot of stuff you don't need to worry about until you actually get there and need to form an opinion on it all.
Have all those come up? how? (or just in discussions with people trying to wrong-foot you?)
the exception to that I would say is womanism because white feminists need to make a conscious effort to think about other races and if you not white, well, it already has come up hasn't it

Yay Mildred!

I think what I am sort of getting at with that, if you are a woman, it is completely ok to approach this, of all things, with yourself at the centre. It is absolutely fine not to have a load of "what-iffery" whirling about in your head especially if it has been put there to distract you - which it so often has - every time we want something or need something we think "but what if - ? what about -?" and it gets us into a tizzy worrying about all the ramifications and always trying to be unselfish.
People throw "problems" in your path - people including you - because we are all so uncomfortable with the simplicity of a woman saying "and what about me? When it is my turn?"
are you a woman? Does your heart long for justice? For you? YOU? Start there.
Nothing would ever happen if it were only allowed to be engaged in when the grand unified field theory is complete

There is an exception to this in womanism because white privilege innit

See, I hadn't even heard of 'womanism' as opposed to 'feminism' .

The whole intersectionalism is vair confusing for my feeble female brain - I don't really 'get' why there needs to be a rank of who a person might be disadvantaged. Or does there??

Excellent news, mildred.

I don't know any of the -isms. I've only read 1 and 2 half books on the topic and they are good for explaining to myself why things wind me up, and why things are the way they are, and sometimes they are good for telling other people why they are wrong.

I've not heard of womanism either.

I think there are different aspects of a person which may be why you have so many different aspects of feminism. Are you your race first or your sex first or your gender first or your profession first or your family role first or whatever else first in each situation? My book also talks about this- when schemas clash things get very weird indeed.

But I may well be talking nonsense. I don't even know what intersectionalism is.

I had to do womanism at school. All I got to was reading a lot of Alice Walker, but I liked her.

I can't remember details but she had a quotation 'womanism is to feminism as purple is to lavender' - I know she is talking about the depth of prejudice women of colour face compared to white women, but I liked how she translated it into terms that gave it a positive connotation of a deep colour, too.

I am less sure about intersectionality. I agree with pacific. Surely the 'ranks' shift constantly? There will be times when it's safer to be a black man, and times when it's safer to be a white woman - but so long as we can all agree that misogyny and racism are pretty shit, especially for black women, surely it is counter-productive to spend time arguing whether black men or white women are fundamentally more suffering?

To me intersectionalism risks a divide-and-conquer situation: if a black, able-bodied woman is up against a white, disabled woman or a black, gay, poorly educated man then who is worse off surely depends on the situation? Is it a job interview, or a seat on the bus we're talking about?

As mentioned before I am an atheist, but the basic christian tenet of looking after those in a less strong position than yourself, seems to be a sound one to me.

YY, and what's really offensive is that, in the hypothetical situation, we're always talking about one seat on the bus or one job ... there should be masses of them, and intersectionality often seems to be about getting us all fighting so we don't notice that.

"As mentioned before I am an atheist, but the basic christian tenet of looking after those in a less strong position than yourself, seems to be a sound one to me."

Sorry to quote myself, but maybe that statement is a bit smug as it is quite easy for me to say being a white, able-bodied, well-educated Western woman.
Hm.
Difficult.

I need to vent, got some very thoughtful Christmas and birthday cards but all with my ex-married surname on them! I kicked my XH out two years ago, and actually never even changed my name when we were married.

Seems so ungrateful, but I just want a card with my actual name

Well, I am also white, able-bodied etc., but I read it as acknowledging a responsibility, and I think that makes sense. I don't think it was smug. I just think most of us would rather not be in a position to need looking after.

Cross post.

Erk, sorry to hear that belle. That is really tactless.

Send them back - "Recipient unknown"

No. Seriously, that would also annoy me.

I'll send you a card with YOUR name on it if you want .

FWIW, my parents totally tie themselves in knots over my surname, because I did not change it when we got married, our DCs have DH's surname so after some years I changed my name to a double-barrelled one to allow me to travel with them unchallenged. I never, ever use my 'passport name' in RL. They are very distressed by this ambiguity . Me telling them that any of the versions of my name will reach me does not help.

In your situation, you could maybe add a little PS to your Christmas cards "Please remember that I do not wish to be known by exH's name, particularly as it was never my name" or something?