So many evil men...can't stand it

[SplitHeadGirl]

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

When a culture continually attempts to restrict the ability of women to decide for ourselves when to give birth and under what circumstance, then that is a culture which does NOT value women. Would you agree? I'm asking.

Because when a culture devalues women, that culture normally doesn't restrict itself from devaluing women through only one mechanism -- that culture degrades women in a multitude of ways, all the way from the glaringly obvious (think sex trafficking and pedophilia), past the annoyingly mundane (such as being paid less for the same work) to the sweetly patronizing ("awww honey you're such a delicate little flower, you couldn't possibly do X by yourself"). Not only all that, but such a dangerous culture for women routinely asks us to take part in our own subjugation by encouraging women from the day we're born to internalize all those excuses and justifications which explain why we should be HAPPY with our servitude.

If you don't want to hate the people who benefit from the system, who perpetuate the system, and who resist improving the system then fine don't hate some men and women. But at least have the self-respect to say that it's okay if somebody else does.

Dear god ludvig - that's awful. Do you not think the actual child rapist was more to blame though? The women involved/implicated in these horrific sexual/violence incidences are all too often under the power of the male perpetrators.

It's like women's bodies are not good enough for the patriarchy. It's not FGM and footbinding in Western society, but are we going down a similar road with boob jobs and labiaplasty? Only it's more voluntary.

And you accuse me of hijacking and derailing

Do you not think the actual child rapist was more to blame though? The women involved/implicated in these horrific sexual/violence incidences are all too often under the power of the male perpetrators.

Under British law she would be guilty of rape by joint enterprise - she facilitated the rape, so they are both child rapists. I really can't see how the male child rapist is more to blame, seeing as she took her child to a prison to allow her boyfriend to rape him. They are both evil monsters and both deserve to rot in hell.
The man was in prison, she had a choice, she didn't have to take her son there and hold him down to be raped. I really don't see how anybody can derive that the woman rapist is less to blame.

Oh - Norude - you are funny. Bit sore still about the monumental put down on the subject of MC?

Mine wasn't a Watm derail - subtle , but very definite difference

Ludwig, they are both awful people.the OP never said no women were evil.

Not at all sore, why would I be? My opinion is still the same in that the two 'procedures' are very different, involve different levels of brutality but are both unnecessary and are usually done without the child having any choice.
I have moved on now from and am shocked that you think the woman in Ludvigs post is less to blame of child rape than the man. Could you expand more on that.

While that's an awful story, Ludwig, random anecdotes about horrible things women have done (and no-one has claimed all women are saints), we're talking about the simple statistical fact that the vast majority of violence in this world is perpetrated by men. And a discussion of how it might be stopped.

There's no benefit to anyone in implying that it's okay that there is so much violence in the world because sometimes women do it too.

Why are so many people determined to deny the fact the male violence is a real problem? For everyone.

Here is a man with a practical plan for tackling male violence. What is more, he looks at the root causes rather than just trotting out the same tired old shite. He speaks more sense on the subject than anyone else I have heard so far;

No histrionics, no playing to the audience, no political axe to grind. It may have been posted in here already - apologies if so.

I agree annie & doctrine.

Norude - my response was not putting more or less blame on the man or the woman (the perpetrator or the accessory) it was that Ludwig seemed to put more blame on the woman than the actual rapist in her post in the way was worded - or at least that was how it came across to me. She posted the story to show that women could be vile and evil as well. Which of course, we all know they can be.

This is something which happens in the UK legal system as well - Helena Kennedy has documented it extensively. Far from being treated more leniently by the justice system and society, women are actually treated more harshly - because law breaking and violence go against the 'caring' and nurturing role that society has defined for women.

Biggedy it has but it's worth sharing again.

I will summarise this thread:
-"But I heard of this evil woman once and my brother is a lovely guy. You feminists are narrow minded if you think all men are violent rapists"
-"OP didn't say all men are evil and all women are good. Please can we discuss male violence?"

• repeat X50.

Kim - war is awful. The punishments handed out to women are awful. But without me going all 'whatabouthemenz', you do know that everyone suffers in war, don't you? That comment sounds so uncaring somehow. Yes, this place is focussed on women, but their needs to be at least a tacit acknowledgement of the other lot, otherwise it sounds like only women suffer and men are left unscratched.

Kim have you read "Are Women Human? by McKinnon?

She discusses women during the war in Bosnia from a feminist perspective, it's truly harrowing.

That is why I posted it Bunny. It addresses the fundamentals of the problem, and it describes the pressures on boys that lead to their problems as men. There is more to violence than people just being evil, as in the OP.

Kim said But this thread is about male violence towards women. Agreed.

But can you fix that alone? Logic tells me that you cannot address only male violence towards women. You have to fix male violence full stop. So why the narrow focus, if it cannot be done? It looks divisive, even if it isn't meant to be (and sometimes I wonder about that). Of course, if someone knows how to fix it in isolation, I would genuinely love to know how.

Sabrina - fair enough. I'm glad to hear that you are not putting less blame on the woman in Ludvigs example.
I suppose when I read this:
Do you not think the actual child rapist was more to blame though? The women involved/implicated in these horrific sexual/violence incidences are all too often under the power of the male perpetrators.

I took that to mean that you thought the man (the child rapist) was more to blame because the woman was under his power.
I apologise if I misunderstood what you wrote.

It was a question to Ludwig. My personal opinion is that, generally, all things being equal, the perpetrator is more to blame for a criminal act than an accessory, though.

But that's not to say I don't find the actions of the woman in Ludwig's example utterly repugnant - but I did want to point out that in cases of serious sexual assault, where a woman is a accessory to the crime, there is usually a man who is the driving force behind the crime.

But the woman is also the perpetrator- joint enterprise makes her a rapist too.

She isn't just an accessory.

Yes, if she held the victim down, she would also be charged with rape. I don't know anything about this particular case - but I seriously doubt that she was the main driver behind the crime. That would be the person who actually committed the rape. In the vast majority of these type of cases, the woman is in the thrall/fear of the man - and acting in accordance with his demands.