Mother-of-two jailed for making TWO false rape claims

[Zaraa]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2188112/Mother-jailed-making-TWO-false-rape-claims-men-dating-didnt-liaison.html

"Emma Saxon, 23, claimed she had been raped in a supermarket car park
Her alleged attacker was arrested and subjected to medical examination
Police spent 90 hours investigating before concluding it was a hoax"

She was given 8 months (although she could be out in far less than this). What do you think? Should she have been given more prison time or should be have been given something other than prison?

Well said, Karlos.

I know that various people have drawn the OP's attention to the fact that the home office and police (those well know bastions of radical feminism) estimate the number of false accusations at somewhere round the 5% leve, exactly the same as for robbery, burglary, etc. But has it been pointed out yet that men are statistically more likely to be raped by another man than they are to be falsely accused of rape by a woman?

Good point.

Why would you think that?

Learning disabilities aren't the same as mental illness at all, and it's highly unlikely anyone would use the one term as a 'euphemism' for the other.

I hope you wouldn't 'have a go at her' for either mental illness or learning disabilities.

Learning disabilites, as several posters on this thread have said, might lead us to question whether a criminal has full understanding of his or her actions. I don't know in this case.

What you characterise as 'magnanimous' is what the rest of us think of as 'normal decency'.

What a strange OP in the feminist section I do wonder what Zaraa hoped to achieve by posting this here rather than in the news section. Is there some background to this we're missing OP? I can only presume that someone close to you has experienced a false allegation of this kind for you to have such strong opinions...

FWIW, I think the case in hand is a very sad one for all concerned. I agree 100% with what LRD said early on in the thread - that if indeed she was a vulnerable person who was manipulated by those with less than honourable intentions then the prison sentence is hardly the type of punishment which deals with the real crime - it looks to me like the defendant is being used by the judiciary to demonstrate to women who are believed to make false allegations that their heinous crimes will not go unpunished. One only wishes that they would make the same demonstration to the rapists themselves.

I'm glad the OP's comments re comparing the relative damage of rape itself and the false allegation of rape have been deleted. Absolutely incredible that she actually believes that. There are other posters who refer to the allegation being the worst thing a man can face and the damage being as bad as rape. No way, absolutely no way.

I say this as someone with a close friend who faced such an allegation. The Criminal Justice system can and does work (although I appreciate that it might not be everybody's experience). That man has experienced no lasting impact upon his work or home life and has gone on to have children, a respectable job, a home etc. Yes, it was a terrible experience and he bears the emotional scars but he was innocent and his attitude was therefore that he had nothing to fear.

I simply wanted to illustrate that all those who profess more sympathy with those who have been accused than those who suffer the crime themselves are quite bonkers - the accusation of a crime can never be worse than the crime itself - what a ridiculous assertion borne out of, not just anti-feminist, but anti-female hypocricy.

well bugger me!
and it's highly unlikely anyone would use the one term as a 'euphemism' for the other.

what else is a euphenmism?

A euphemism is a 'nicer' term used to describe a nastier or less desirable reality. Neither 'learning disabilities' nor 'mental illness' are anything to be ashamed of, so I think it is pretty horrible to suggest either needs a 'euphemism'. Implying that the lawyer was covering up mental illness by referring to it as 'learning disabilities' is also pretty unpleasant - if you doubt the mitigating circumstances around this woman's case, I'd like to know where you get your reasons from.

She did a terrible thing. She was tried and found guilty and she is being punished. I think that should be an end to it.

She did a terrible thing. She was tried and found guilty and she is being punished. I think that should be an end to it.

100% agreed LRD - the one thing that I always think is what kind of twisted reality exists in a mind that would fabricate such an allegation - is it possible that she suffered at the hands of another in some way? Is she attention seeking in some horrible way to try to highlight her own damage? The possibilities are endless. The prison sentence she now faces is the punishment society demands. What more does the OP and others who agree want? Blood?

I don't want to think too much about what would prompt her to do it because to me, it comes too close to explaining away what she did, and that would be wrong.

I do hope she gets some kind of treatment in prison, if she can benefit from it, to make her understand what she has done wrong.

FFS, op, are you actually reading your own links?

The raped woman in the Scottish case received compensation from a government body (not from the footballer) because they believed it was proven that she had been raped. That there was insufficient evidence to convict the named accused doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Given it seems her drink was spiked, whether she was mistaken in her identification or what, I don't know, but £11,000 hardly sounds like easy money, does it?

It's interesting that you came on enquiring about a specific case where a false allegation was punished (incidentally, I doubt 90 hours of police time is a particularly long investigation, given a number of processes would require two officers etc). Most people agreed an element of punishment was appropriate although some questioned whether it was the best choice given the vulnerability described.

You then seem to have taken the opportunity to bang some other kind of drum. How predictable.

Why do I get the impression we might not hear from the OP any more?

If the woman had been raped and received compensation, then it was proved this man wasn't the rapist - surely she still needs the compensation?

As a survivor of rape, ahh no you're not treated well. Yes, I get sympathy from a very small number of people. Wow, sympathy for being brutalised? Man I'm treated better than everyone else!

I AM believed btw, only one of my multiple attackers (separate attacks over the years) was convicted. And he was cleared of rape, and only convicted of child pornography despite mountains of physical evidence.

You know how I have been treated? Various things I've been told throughout my lifetime:

You deserved it
How could you be so stupid? (In regards to my FATHER when I was a small child)
Many more comments like that that I can't post because I'll get too upset.

The worst one? The repeated attitude that I'm 'damaged goods' and no one would ever want to be with me because 'I lost my virginity at age four.'

Personally, I feel I lost my virginity when I first consented.

I don't tell people any more. I've even had professionals suggest I don't tell future partners because it will make them see me differently.

Oh yes, the tiny minority of false allegations (4-6%)are far more important than the real rapes and sexual assaults that happen to 25% of women.

And men's feelings about being falsely accused of rape, are much worse than women's feelings about being raped.

Women, never forget that. Especially when you're gossiping on a board with the word feminist in the title. Always remember your place.

Lurking, so sorry

Ennis, it's okay. :) I'm finally at a place where I'm healing. No more entering abusive relationships, have a wonderful psychologist who is helping me reprogram my thinking so I can see red flags in relationships...I tend to choose abusive 'friends' as well. For the first time in my entire life, I have no toxic people in my world.

It's a bit scary because abuse is all I'm used too, but it's strange how all of a sudden people care about MY opinions, MY dreams, laugh at MY jokes. I still worry a lot about 'offending' people (AKA not saying the exact right thing to an abusive partner/friend) but I've never felt better.

It just makes me sad there are so many people, even on MN that believe most rape victims are lying or somehow could have prevented their attack.

If they'd ever been through the process of making a statement and the degradation of a rape kit, I doubt they'd make such callous comments.

Funnily enough, it was the FWR section that made me realise my 'perfect' partner was terribly abusive, and eventually the strength to leave him!

hugs LurkingAndLearning

To JustMe;

People falsely accused of rape can, if worst comes to worst, up sticks and start over somewhere new, change their name.

Rape survivors? Well, fuck it. You carry around the flashbacks. You carry around the trauma. Hell, some of us even have children as the result of being raped (Pretty sure no false rape accusation ever resulted in the accused falling pregnant).

Then, oh... there's the issue of having a relationship when you've not fully recovered from what happened to you. There was the ex who pinned me to the floor, playfighting, who only got off after I screamed at him and lashed out. There was the other ex who stopped because I suddenly froze in the middle of intercourse. The relationship I felt I screwed up because I couldn't manage intimacy...

Or there's dealing with the child who was conceived through rape. You can't expect that child to understand he wasn't wanted, that Mummy never loved Daddy, or that when he's invading your personal space it will offset a panic attack. Seriously, nothing's as heartbreaking as your four year old trying to tell you "It's OK, Mummy."

But yeah, sure. People "accused of rape" have it worse. I mean, being convicted of rape ruined Mike Tyson's life, right?

lurking that is awful - good on you shaming the rape apologists with that post.

Glad things are better, yay.

I've always thought that the rape kit aspect would make false allegations in rape lower than in other crimes, for those making such allegations maliciously.

Mildew, another brave post.

Hope you are ok Mildew.

I'm OK, thanks, Ennis. These fuckwits who claim being accused of rape is as bad as being raped just piss me off, though...

hugs tight

Mildew, I identify so much, everything you say is true and I have experienced too.

I had to suffer through a traumatising late term abortion due to rape, I know exactly what you mean. The horrifying feeling of just wanting that parasite out of you, yet loving it at the same time.

Anyone who compares the trauma of a rape allegation to actually being raped is not only a fucking moron but insensitive to the point of inhumane.

I hope that you never suffer the terror of being raped. I'd rather you were just an asshole.

I wanted to post in support of LRD and the excellent arguments she had put forward against the horrible and dangerous premis of the OP. but the two brave posts above have said more than I could ever have said.

So I will leave it having just added my number to the 'right' side. Just in case anyone else was in doubt about the strength of feeling on this issue.

Op are you female?